Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
3061

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
oh and Dunk Diggit. Because it is the only way we have of doing anything like testing out MHaye’s claim.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, that’s wrong.

I argued (and know) that the result he got from investigating me was wrong, but it happened before Hal was killed. And since his investigation was on Night 1, the Apprentice’s investigation powers were at its lowest.

You could see a test of his powers if, for instance, **sachertorte **or FlyingCowofDoom were dunked/NightKilled, since their investigations came back after Hal was killed.

3062

WTF is wrong with you people??

If **MHaye **is lying, the real Apprentice is a damn fool. The investigations are invaluable at this point in the game. We need them to win. We cannot take a chance that the Apprentice will be killed tonight before divulging everything.

Monks, you’re making the wrong choice. We need to narrow the pool of unknowns as much as possible to find Cultists. We’ve got one, maybe two more nights of investigations. We’ve got 9 unknowns, including Diggit. He’s dead, so that brings us to 8. If we cut that down to 6, the chances are excellent that the Apprentice will find a Non-Believer tonight. It makes no difference to the Cult if the Monks are out in the open toDay or not.

Please, think about it.

–FCOD

3063

[QUOTE=FlyingCowOfDoom]
WTF is wrong with you people??

If **MHaye **is lying, the real Apprentice is a damn fool. The investigations are invaluable at this point in the game. We need them to win. We cannot take a chance that the Apprentice will be killed tonight before divulging everything.

Monks, you’re making the wrong choice. We need to narrow the pool of unknowns as much as possible to find Cultists. We’ve got one, maybe two more nights of investigations. We’ve got 9 unknowns, including Diggit. He’s dead, so that brings us to 8. If we cut that down to 6, the chances are excellent that the Apprentice will find a Non-Believer tonight. It makes no difference to the Cult if the Monks are out in the open toDay or not.

Please, think about it.

–FCOD
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. And don’t forget that I have a power too. If the pool of unknowns is mostly Cult, then I’ll have a better chance of stopping a night kill. THINK people! THINK!

3064

I have thought about it. My decision stands to not reveal my fellow monks, although they can certainly do so themselves if they so choose.

3065

[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey]
Agreed. And don’t forget that I have a power too. If the pool of unknowns is mostly Cult, then I’ll have a better chance of stopping a night kill. THINK people! THINK!
[/QUOTE]
An excellent point. I’d also love to know what a good reason for the Apprentice to not counter-claim is. I sure can’t think of one.

–FCOD

3066

Yeesh, you people. Just consider that some of the power roles have information you don’t have, and that we might have damn good reasons for doing what we do.

3067

On the subject of Monks claiming or not, what I think is irrelevant. I’ve always thought that power roles should play as they see fit. I’m not against players making suggestions to power roles. It might suggest ideas or lines of thought that hadn’t occurred to the player. I tend to ignore those that come without reasons though.

One of the aspects of my role that I’ve been struggling with is that even now I no longer have a chance of getting the wrong result, I cannot definitively identify Cultists. What I can do though is reduce the pool of players in which the surviving Cult may swim.

My ability actually divides the players roles into three groups :- Nonbelievers, Believers and Identifiable Power. Regular Cultists are found within the first group, the Avatar in the third, while the Prophet lies in the second.

Thus I could break down the investigation results (at least the ones AOD) into Believers and Power. The advantage would be to reduce the number of players in which the Prophet can hide. The disadvantage would be the risk that the information thus revealed would benefit the Cult enough that they could break the Towns back before the Town could isolate the Prophet. I’m particularly concerned that revealing any hidden Monks would enable the Cult to use their recruitment without fear of failure. (I still don’t think it likely that Night 6 was a recruitment attempt). If I do decide to publish it will be before Nightfall.

DiggitCamara[sub]2[/sub], I’m not going to forget your posts. I’ll republish the full list of them Tomorrow (assuming I survive Tonight) so they can be reevaluated in the light of your true alignment.

I think the sheer size of my main breadcrumbs was one of the reasons I didn’t get spotted by the Cult in time, so it seems appropriate after all.

My remaining uncertainty won’t stop me finally voting DiggitCamara[sub]2[/sub] though.

3068

[QUOTE=CatinaSuit]
Oh look - the boards back.

Current situation

Role Claimed
**CatinaSuit ** Disciple
**Pleonast ** Martyr
**MHaye ** Apprentice
**Zeriel ** Monk
**Hockey Monkey ** Alchemist

Believers (possibly including the Prophet)
sachertorte
FlyingCowOfDoom

Unknowns
USCDiver
NAF1138
Pygmy Rugger
Queuing
zuma [Ver. 2]
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Idle Thoughts
Kyrie Eleison

#1 town suspect
DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] (although he looks like he is an unbeliever, despite denials)

I reckon that we are still missing a **Monk ** and the Prophet. Anyone like to claim :stuck_out_tongue:

Other than sachertorte, I think everyone has posted.

Hockey Monkey. As no-one else has claimed **Alchemist ** by now I guess the role claim is safe, if someone was going to out you, they should have done it yesterday

unvote Hockey Monkey

Finally, if **DiggitCamara ** is a Cultist, there is a chance he could be the Avatar.
I would rather not see any pro town power voting for him, but everyone else should. That way if he is, we have a chance of taking another Cultist out at the same time.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t like this. Or rather, I don’t like setting things in stone so much. Maybe it has to do with being more overly paranoid or maybe it’s just because I always like to keep in mind every possible option but you seem to be saying here you think either sach or FCoD is a believer or the prophet.

But what of a possible recruit? If Mhaye is to believed then FCoD wouldn’t have had a chance yet, but the Night before last COULD have been a recruit try. So if Sach was the one, then he’d read believer if the Prophet or a recruit.

Same with Hockey who I’m getting suspicious of a little again. I do believe, by now, she’s the Alchemist. I do not know what to think, however, of her alignment anymore. YMMV.

All I’m saying is, I think it’s dangerous to put things in stone with that nokill out there. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn’t a recruit yet…but it obviously wasn’t the Psychopath being activated…so it was either recruit (which failed or was successful) or failed attempt at killing.

3069

[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts]

(snip)

All I’m saying is, I think it’s dangerous to put things in stone with that nokill out there. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn’t a recruit yet…but it obviously wasn’t the Psychopath being activated…so it was either recruit (which failed or was successful) or failed attempt at killing.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said before, it seems to me that Fretful Porpentine used her “general protection” ability on the Night before last. Then, seeing an opening, the Cultist killed Fretful Porpentine.

The question that lingers in my mind is how they had spotted Fretful Porpentine in the first place.

3070

For your information

Unofficial Vote count:

DiggitCamara (12) - Idle Thoughts, Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom, Pygmy Rugger, Zeriel, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, HockeyMonkey, USCDiver, CatinaSuit, Pleonast, NAF1138, MHaye
Pleonast(1) - DiggitCamara

Yet to vote: sachertorte, zuma, Kyrie Eleison

3071

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Like I said before, it seems to me that Fretful Porpentine used her “general protection” ability on the Night before last. Then, seeing an opening, the Cultist killed Fretful Porpentine.

The question that lingers in my mind is how they had spotted Fretful Porpentine in the first place.
[/QUOTE]

Why would Fretful have done such a thing? I would love to see your reasons for believing this.

How do we know they spotted fretful? I know the scum have been very accurate in their night killings so far, but it could have just been luck you know.

3072

[QUOTE=Queuing]
Why would Fretful have done such a thing? I would love to see your reasons for believing this.

How do we know they spotted fretful? I know the scum have been very accurate in their night killings so far, but it could have just been luck you know.
[/QUOTE]

Why? Who knows. I’ll be sure to ask her, though, as soon as I’ve been dunked :smiley:

Well, my reasons to believe they spotted her hinge on a complicated sequence of events:

  1. In Most (if not all) of the games I’ve been in the Doctors protect themselves unless they see someone else who is extremely likely to be protected
  2. In this game, several revelations might have prompted a change of behavior. Not during this Night, though (the person who outed himself could self-protect)
  3. If I’m right and Fretful Porpentine self-protected, the Night no-one died someone else was targeted. Who? Who cares?
  4. When they learned of Mal’s status (and, incidentally, his protection list, and, incidentally, who the psychopath was), the Cultist knew the target they had chosen (and on whom the hit had failed) must have received protection by the Priest
  5. Their target was not likely a candidate for protection on that Night. Or else, since there were many targets, the Cultist gambled that the Priest couldn’t self-protect during that Night, and struck
3073

[QUOTE=Queuing]
Why would Fretful have done such a thing? I would love to see your reasons for believing this.

How do we know they spotted fretful? I know the scum have been very accurate in their night killings so far, but it could have just been luck you know.
[/QUOTE]

Forgot to underline one point:

It’s one thing to believe in luck. But don’t you think it’s a huge coincidence they hit her on the Night she didn’t self-protect?

3074

By the way, there has been some doubt as to MHaye’s status. There are, however, at least two persons who could tell us if he’s right:

  1. **FretfulPorpentine
    **2. sachertorte

Of course, if a “real” Apprentice hasn’t rebuked MHaye’s claim by now, (s)he obviously hasn’t realized that, by outing MHaye (s)he would actually have caught 3 Cultists at once. Without a single investigation.

3075

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
By the way, there has been some doubt as to MHaye’s status. There are, however, at least two persons who could tell us if he’s right:

  1. **FretfulPorpentine
    **2. sachertorte

Of course, if a “real” Apprentice hasn’t rebuked MHaye’s claim by now, (s)he obviously hasn’t realized that, by outing MHaye (s)he would actually have caught 3 Cultists at once. Without a single investigation.
[/QUOTE]

How?

3076

[QUOTE=NAF1138]
How?
[/QUOTE]

Well, if you want to impersonate the Apprentice, if you say two people (other than Cultists) are Believers, you risk choosing some Non-Believer, and blowing yourself out of the water. That could be circumvented by telling the rest of the world all about the pre-Oracle investigations and saying that afterwards you had investigated players that have already died by now, etc. etc.

By mentioning several people in his post-Oracle-Death investigations and calling them all Believers, the risk an impostor took was bigger, since any one of them could have outed him. However, most of those names were people who had already role-claimed, which, again, would have simply confirmed what we already think we know.

**MHaye ** threw Flying Cow of Doom and sachertorte into the mix. If he was an impostor and he threw two random players into his “investigations” he would have risked being called on it, by any of the two. This hasn’t happened. So he probably does know their exact alignment. Which means, if he’s an impostor, that he knows they won’t call him out because of their false status or that he isn’t an impostor and truly investigated them.

3077

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
By the way, there has been some doubt as to MHaye’s status. There are, however, at least two persons who could tell us if he’s right:

  1. **FretfulPorpentine
    **2. sachertorte

Of course, if a “real” Apprentice hasn’t rebuked MHaye’s claim by now, (s)he obviously hasn’t realized that, by outing MHaye (s)he would actually have caught 3 Cultists at once. Without a single investigation.
[/QUOTE]

Aggh! I just noticed: I didn’t mean Fretful Porpentine.

I meant Flying Cow of Doom was one of the players who could tell us MHaye’s information is correct.

3078

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Well, if you want to impersonate the Apprentice, if you say two people (other than Cultists) are Believers, you risk choosing some Non-Believer, and blowing yourself out of the water. That could be circumvented by telling the rest of the world all about the pre-Oracle investigations and saying that afterwards you had investigated players that have already died by now, etc. etc.

By mentioning several people in his post-Oracle-Death investigations and calling them all Believers, the risk an impostor took was bigger, since any one of them could have outed him. However, most of those names were people who had already role-claimed, which, again, would have simply confirmed what we already think we know.

**MHaye ** threw Flying Cow of Doom and sachertorte into the mix. If he was an impostor and he threw two random players into his “investigations” he would have risked being called on it, by any of the two. This hasn’t happened. So he probably does know their exact alignment. Which means, if he’s an impostor, that he knows they won’t call him out because of their false status or that he isn’t an impostor and truly investigated them.
[/QUOTE]
This is a good way to semi-confirm MHaye’s claim. I assumed that by not saying otherwise everyone would assume that I am a Believer, but to make it clear: I am a vanilla Believer. As I’ve basically said before, I believe MHaye’s claim. If **sachertorte **were here, we might be able to completely confirm the claim, but he’s on vacation. What a pity :rolleyes:

I say again: if **MHaye **is not the Apprentice, the real Apprentice needs to come forward NOW.

–FCOD

3079

To say nothing is a bad idea, so I’m chiming in to say something. Such posts of mine have an (admittedly limited) history of being perceived as suspicious by some living players.

I’m going to say it anyway, though.

One perspective on toDay’s posting trends is that much harping/pleading with unclaimed power roles has been taking place. I’m not yet able to determine if I think they are pushing in the right direction, however.

I think making aggressive moves while one of our living players is otherwise indisposed is a risk. I also think the Cultists are going to press the advantage they gain due to our situation.

Such is my current, personal, quandry.

3080

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Why? Who knows. I’ll be sure to ask her, though, as soon as I’ve been dunked :smiley:

Well, my reasons to believe they spotted her hinge on a complicated sequence of events:

  1. In Most (if not all) of the games I’ve been in the Doctors protect themselves unless they see someone else who is extremely likely to be protected

  2. In this game, several revelations might have prompted a change of behavior. Not during this Night, though (the person who outed himself could self-protect)

  3. If I’m right and Fretful Porpentine self-protected, the Night no-one died someone else was targeted. Who? Who cares?

  4. When they learned of Mal’s status (and, incidentally, his protection list, and, incidentally, who the psychopath was), the Cultist knew the target they had chosen (and on whom the hit had failed) must have received protection by the Priest

  5. Their target was not likely a candidate for protection on that Night. Or else, since there were many targets, the Cultist gambled that the Priest couldn’t self-protect during that Night, and struck
    [/QUOTE]

  6. Ok, makes sense. Fretful may very well have seen someone

  7. Ok.

  8. Who knows exactly. No real way for us to know.

  9. Sure, chances are good

  10. Maybe, again hard to know.

However not one of these explains why you think she may have used her protect all power. To assume this is just bizarre.

[QUOTE=Diggit Camara]
Forgot to underline one point:

It’s one thing to believe in luck. But don’t you think it’s a huge coincidence they hit her on the Night she didn’t self-protect?
[/QUOTE]

Maybe. Again you are assuming that it was the only night she self protected. Only she knows how often she self-protected, speculation on what she did seems to be mostly useless and I don’t understand why you are focused on it. Except maybe in an attempt to convince catina suit to tell us if the power still exists.