Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

The Game Room
1481

You use Word. That’s your problem then…

I discuss the evolution of my suspicions over Day 2. I started with my list of suspicious posters, noted that the top two were already dead and discussed the other four. I then moved on to discussing players who had made me suspicious over the course of Day 2. One of those was USCDiver; my main problem being that he failed to (as Queueing put it) “show his working” in post 1108. That was what I meant by “failing to substantiate his conclusion.”

I obviously could not have been too concerned about it though, as I did not make him Top Suspect. It was firm enough to mention it, but not firm enough to form the basis of a vote.

I need reminding of the post. I’ll have to look for it later. Unless someone has a reference handy?

I interpreted your saying

as meaning that you felt slightly offended, and chose to apologise. I didn’t want the game spoiled because of rancour between us is all. If you weren’t upset about it, frankly that’s a load off my mind.

1482

984: Fluff about regretting zuma’s death

1028: Noting that my suspicions of zuma were based on his exchange with Mal. Either Mal is scum and was trying to bait zuma into getting angry, or he isn’t scum and his first vote for zuma was simply unfortunately worded. Basically comes to no conclusion either way.

1080: Assumption that Mtgman’s death was not led by the cultists, and suspicions concerning scattered votes.

1093: Reiterates that it is unlikely a bandwagon would have been led by scum on the first day. Also notes that scum would have had no group strategy and most of them would probably have tried to lay low at that point in the game.

1174: Repetition of the fact that Mal’s vote itself doesn’t mean much but the reasons behind the vote are still weird.

1180: Gender clarification - female

1243: Apologies for silence and promise to post vote.

[url=]1254: Vote for DiggitCamera. Admits suspicions is somewhat irrational but cites questionable timing of vote on Mtgman bandwagon and off-hand vote of Monkey Mensch, as well as his request for a comprehensive list of night-kill possibilities (notes this could be a distraction tactic).

1483

Opps, dammit it again. I quoted myself to fix the links and the nested quote from my first try didn’t make it through.

Here was the relevant portion:

Although to be honest, re-reading it, I may have confused your pronoun ‘her’ in the second sentence there to be referring to Kat when it may have been referring to Cookies

1484

You know what? I completely forgot about my initial suspicions regarding MadTheSwine and his over-reaction to Clockwork Jackal’s post. (Mad said that CJ’s saying “no one looks scummy yet” was a scum tell, along with Hal’s concern about player distribution; CJ pointed out that she had said “no one looks scummy EXCEPT this one person” and said that she “would FOS” Mad for saying player distribution is unimportant; Mad said that he didn’t like revenge votes nor did he like people twisting his words and promptly voted CJ. When it was pointed out that CJ had not voted for him at all (and it was also argued that her interpretation of his words was not necessarily twisting them but an arguably reasonable reading), Mad conceded his mistake but kept the vote.)

You never explained this, Mad, and both storyteller and I voted for you but withdrew our votes simply because you were not around to defend yourself. Mind explaining the reasons you kept that vote?

1485

Alright, as suggested by sachertorte, a re-read and summary. Open admission that I am liable to not remember why I posted some of this stuff. =P

990, 991 : Speculation that the scum are brainless for nightkilling a player who’d got a significant number of votes as it was.

1047 : Rationale for voting mtgman (he was getting more scummy, and I’d already made up my mind to unvote Kyrie), including a brief defense of why I think it’s appropriate to take votes away from one-offs and commit to one of the frontrunners late in the day.

1057 : Speculation on Nava’s RL location, facts on Zeriel’s gender.

1123 : FOS on Malacandra for being excessively condescending in his own defense.

1130 : Snarking vs. Mal.

1200 : Vote for fluiddruid based on her attacks on Mal followed up by silence, heavily influenced by other’s analysis.

1209 : Comment on slowdown of game over the 4th.

1223 : List of current suspicions as of that particular time, including Malacandra, Kyrie, SCL, Autolycus, and NAF, in roughly that order.

1249 : Poor explanation of why I suspected who I did (poor, given that their status of "having voted for Kat was kinda irrelevant next to “haven’t said much of substance” or “made me suspicious on a gut level for no good reason”. Additional suspicion on MHaye for discouraging analysis of why zuma was targeted.
And there you have it. I think I’m staying pretty consistent in who I suspect and why – I don’t like NAF’s list, I don’t like ANYONE being quiet for too long, I don’t like discouragement of strategy discussion, I don’t like people who vote and then lurk, and some people itch me the wrong way for no reason. I try to vote on things more substantial than the last one.

1486

Quick question for NAF1138: what, if anything, is the difference between “an obsession” and “a suspicion, based on articulable evidence, that resurfaces when additional evidence presents itself”? You’ll note I barely mentioned you on Day 2 except for that one mention of a nagging unease (and you were behind FIVE other people on my suspicion list at the time of mention, counting the strong-enough-to-vote suspicion) and in fact I used your arguments as part of the rationale for my Day 2 vote in the first place.

1487

Post summary Day 2

1100 - comment on an **Idle Thoughts ** post
1103 - night kill stuff - who and why
1104 - Crusader talk (night kills)
1106 - what to post. And identifying myself as a guy
1136 - my un FOS of storyteller0910
1264 - discussion of Malacandra, some thoughts about some others, and my Day 2 vote
1299 - a post during the twilight, asking if the Day had been extended

1488

All right, summary of my posts coming right up, skipping fluff posts:

272. I attempt to figure out how many scum / nonbelievers / townies there are. Unfortunately I totally forgot about recruitment, so use these numbers at your peril.

278. I discuss the flaws in chrisk’s plan in Mafia 2, and give a cautious nod to sachertorte’s plan.

358. Further discussion of numbers and roles.

457. Clarification on sachertorte’s plan, which I’m no longer on board with, but don’t see the harm in discussing. At 467 I point out a potential benefit to the plan.

515. Argue that sachertorte is probably town; express suspicions of Autolycus because of his silence.

548. Discuss benefits and risks of Apprentice making self known to Oracle. Follow-up at 560 and 567.

677. Disagree with Mtgman and agree with storyteller in terms of overall strategy, but think Mtgman is town. Vote Autolycus.

875-6. Unvote Autolycus because he’s started to talk; vote Nava instead. Speculate about whether scum more likely to sub out than town. Follow-up posts at 878 and 881.

999 and 1009. The “Why zuma?” posts.

1064. Argue that if AZTeach / Kat is scum, Cultists would have an excellent reason to pile on one of the other candidates. Vote Kat and FoS Hal Briston and DiggitCamera (on the incorrect assumption that Hal Briston cast the tying vote). Follow-up / corrections at 1070, 1074 (FoS Zeriel), and 1082.

1131. Defend sachertorte again, on grounds that people who push unpopular strategies are more likely town.

1231. Semi-defend Queuing; argue that asking “Why zuma?” is not a scum tell.

1248. Vote not to change deadline.

1371. Argue that cultists probably didn’t vote for Kat since the election was so close.

1434. FoS Zeriel.

1489

So who else beyond NAF do you suspect? Who do you think has been to quiet? I know the person I have noticed the most you have not mentioned.

1490

Ok, I’m going back to page 1 and doing a summary of my posts.

Before start of game:

#23 - I’m in.
#73 - fluff.
#159 - acknowledgment of PM from BlasterMaster.

Game starts #197.

#349 - semi-fluff post - at that point in the game, saying Hal Briston said we were in a dry town because he was afraid of liquids was just about as much of a suspicion as I had. There had been a lot of wrangling about telling the Oracle and the Apprentice how to play, and I didn’t want to get caught up in that because a) it’s a bad idea and b) even if it was a good idea we have no way to enforce it.

#359 - response to sachertorte about post #349.

#403 - voted for sachertorte for refusing to drop the Oracle/Apprentice argument.

#423 - stated that there is value in “fluff” posts, that a player may be more likely to let something slip if they don’t feel they have to watch every word they type. Also another plea for an end to the Oracle/Apprentice discussion.

#453 - question concerning the continuing Oracle/Apprentice discussion.

#494 - asking Mgtman if I was correct in thinking he had advocated power roles claiming early in the game. (I had misunderstood how early he was talking about - he was referring to “Days” not days, and 4 or 5 Days instead of earlier.)

#507 - asking how we can be sure a “random” vote is really random.

#519 - discussion about how to discourage “lurking”.

#571 - another plea to stop the Oracle/Apprentice debate.

#619 - talking about how scum would most likely satotage a “unified town strategy”

#835 - response to Pasta.

#855 - unvote sachertorte, vote pasta for deliberately misrepresenting what I had said in post #835.

#892 - fluff.

Day 1 ends post #893.

#899 - fluff.

#931 - fluff.

#938 - fluff.

#980 start Day 2.

#993 - farewell to zuma.

#1008 - comment on Malacandra’s comment about zuma.

#1017 - comment on Scuba Ben getting on Pleonast for voting for Malacandra. Discussion of suspicion of Pleonast.

#1091 - commented that sachertorte had expressed my feelings about Malacandra’s comment better than I could. Remarked that I had had problems getting on the board. Said I found it odd that Fretful Porpentine would unvote Autolycus to vote for Nava so near to the end of the Day. Said that I was suspicious of Kat but didn’t really want to vote for someone who had just subbed in. Gave notice that I would not be posting until Thursday morning.

#1099 - responded to NAF1138 saying that I didn’t take a stand on anything.

#1142 - vote Kat, with reasons.

#1230 - asking Zeriel why she only suspected three of the four players who had voted for Kat at that time. Commented on Hockey Monkey placing a one-off vote on someone, listing as a reason for suspicion that the player had placed a one-off vote.

#1242 - said it didn’t matter to me if the game Day was extended or not.

#1295 - fluff

#1317 - Day 2 ends.

While going back through all of this I have taken some notes and will be back with some comments after I eat dinner and take a bath.

1491

Beyond NAF1138 right this second…

MHaye because he sticks in my head as trying to stifle strategy discussion, especially with the bizarre claim that the scum would pick a townie at random for the sole purpose of derailing night-kill analysis.

Fluiddruid still pings on my suspicion radar based on her starting the Malacandra voting, and then bailing out for a while.

Auto, Mad, and Monkey are also awfully quiet, although I see some “busy in RL” excuses, and I can’t imagine someone being scummy enough to use that as a tactic. Nava’s also quiet, but she’s got legit issues about time zone.

Idle and Hal based on my itch about voting patterns in the endgame of Malacandra vs. Kat yesterday.

Kyrie itched me for a while, since I had a big suspicion of Jackal but she’s giving a town vibe now. Fretful strikes me as town, as does sachertorte and klutz, because they all have some good workable pro-town strategy discussion going on.

You, Queuing, bother me because for some reason my reptile brain is just SCREAMING “Psychopath! He’s the psychopath and he’s active and he’s going to eat your baby!” I have no rationale so I’m almost embarrassed to admit it, but it’s there in case anyone wants to trust my gut. =P

Pleonast barely trips my sensors, less because of what he’s doing and more because a lot of rational people have been pressing him but not hard enough to precipitate a lynching–one of the scum tells I look for in RL mafiascum is people who’re trying to organize a bandwagon–it’s a much more reliable scum tell IRL than people who JOIN a bandwagon.

Who’s your biggest perceived scum right now? I know you voted for Hal yesterday but I haven’t seen much from you yet today.

Honestly, I want to see more summaries like this of what people are thinking, if someone who’s killed is a power role later in the game, they might well be handing out a very nice list of potential targets. And if everyone does it, the scum doesn’t know who’s a power role and posting certainty and who’s a townie or non-believer just posting suspicions.

1492

Geez I have to re-evaluate the way I play this game. This is my second time playing. The first one I was also accused of being a lone killer, the SK in that case, and I lasted right to the end of the game. Not exactly a sign of the scum being scared of me if they didn’t ever even think about killing me. Of course that is because I was always on a lot of scumdars.

Anyway, enough of that. My suspicions? These are all just gut right now. I may have time tomorrow to take a closer look but the whole damn company just got new blackberries and guess who has to set them all up?

I still have questions about Hal Briston. For the reasons I laid out in Day 2. Not ready to throw a vote his way again however.

I don’t know what to make of Zeriel/NAF tiff, nor do Malacandra/Zuma. I am waiting for someone else to make a better argument one way or the other.

Pleonast has been tripping my scumdar since day 1, but it is mostly based on his voting patterns. These voting patterns are consistent with the way he played in M2 however, when he was a mason, so I don’t want to vote for him yet either.

Scuba Ben has my gut saying “scum”. I have his posts ready to look through hoping I can find out why.

MonkeyMensch is the one I am closest to voting for. He has done pretty much nothing but fluff posts. This is what he did in M2. In M2 he was the SK. He also kept repeatedly trying to set me up as the SK in M2 (with my inadvertent help I suppose). Just saying scum to me.

I think DiggitCamara was killed to try to get the town to suspect me. This could just be my paranoia however. However people who played M2 with me know I seem to be very good at drawing suspicion upon myself. This has happened in this game, but not quite to the same degree, however there have been a couple of posts similiar to yours—my posts don’t say scum but your gut says different. Therefore I look at people who played with me in M2. Monkeymensch has tried this before to pretty damn good effect. NAF was the mod, seeing and knowing all. Fretful was in it as well (scum I think but can’t remember now) as was Pleonast. Probably others as well (Kat and Story but they are dead now so whatever). Auto has quit this game.

If you want a vote from me now I will give it:

vote Monkeymensch

1493

Err I didn’t preview and since you can’t edit…

To expand on the DC was killed to throw suspicion on me. I think I was the only person to attempt to throw any suspicion onto him. I voted for him. In some of my larger analysis posts I FOS/voted for him in two of them. The scum know that the town will look for reasons why someone was killed. It tends to be the very first thing that is discussed. If someone had looked the could have seen that I was pretty much the only person who tried to go after DC. Or I could be a freaking brilliant scum using this to try to prove that I Believe, and am a citizen. Since the voting has been VERY spread out I do not think it would be overly hard to get a bandwagon started on a few people; Malacandra, NAF, sachertorte and myself. I only have a feeling on one of those people, sachertorte, and know what I am. I think the scum might be trying to set-up a believer to be lynched later on in the game, and will be going after one of the other today. Just my $0.02.

1494

Just a few thoughts - I’m tired and I have to get up earlier than I am accustomed to in the morning.

I’m still suspicious of Hockey Monkey for the one-off vote on Fretful Porpentine; I think she has now retracted her suspicions, which is very convenient. A good way to vote but not have it really mean anything.

While rereading to “do my homework” I noticed MadtheSwine’s vote against Clockwork Jackal - it looked like he was pretty much placing a revenge vote after saying he doesn’t like revenge votes. Then he has no vote at all at the end of Day 2.

I will always be suspicious of players who don’t vote.

In post #1264 Captain Klutz says that he wants to give a sub a chance to play. This was Kat, who replaced ArizonaTeach - who had voted for Zeriel when Zeriel voted for Captain Klutz. Is this a case of Cult trying to help out Cult?

For some reason I am suspicious of fluiddruid; however it might be that she was scum in the only other game I have played so the taint has lingered. I am trying not to let roles in the last game influence this one!

It will be interesting to see who “does their homework” in regards to sachertorte’s list in post 1468.

[fluff]Cookies, did the kitty ever come home?[/fluff]

1495

I’ve reading this monster of a thread for the past hour and a half, and here are some random, incoherent notes.

The initial ArizonaTeach/Auto kerfluffle.
At the time, many were speculating as to why Arizona had had such a spectacular meltdown and left. Many opined that it was probably more of a townie frustration thing than anything else. I didn’t post anything at the time because my suspicions were elsewhere, but at the time, I agreed. The suspicions died down a bit when Kat subbed in because many felt it was unfair to judge her by her predecessor. But now we know for a fact that Arizona was scum, as yesterDay’s drowning of Kat revealed. Re-reading the whole meltdown, I am wondering if the entire argument was staged. It just seems rather odd for a Cultist to back themselves into a corner, have a fit, and then decide to withdraw from the game altogether. His meltdown may have been genuine, I suppose - Auto’s roleplaying can get on some people’s nerves. But getting annoyed doesn’t necessarily lead to a meltdown. I’ve even considered the wild scenario that he needed to be subbed out because of an IRL issue but decided to have a meltdown first to confuse everyone. I’m not sure what this says about Auto, though. The fact that he was consistent in voting for Arizona/Kat may be in his favor, but his vote was fairly early on in the second day and he didn’t even wait to see what Kat had to say for herself. If he is scum, it’s possible that he didn’t predict a bandwagon against her would build up by the end of the Day. By the time he made his last post for that Day, it was too late to change anything anyway, I think.

Pleonast’s initial vote for Malacandra.
It was rather hasty. Granted, I was also suspicious of him for a long time, but Day 2 had barely started when Pleonast cast his vote.

Kyrie Eleison’s attempt to find something in the Night Kill description when Blaster Master made it perfectly clear there was nothing to be found. Yes, he explained it away as “jumping at shadows.” I don’t know if I buy it. And then his insinuation that Idle Thoughts was posting about playing games to kill time during the Night because he was trying too hard not to look like scum. (To be fair, Captain Klutz did this as well.) It was a pretty innocuous out-of-game remark, and anyway, I doubt scum would call attention to themselves in such a heavy-handed manner. storyteller also points out that Kyrie is inconsistent with his suspicions of posters who “vote for effect” (post 1203).

Kat’s list of FOSs in post 1020 is interesting. I am thinking that there has to be at least one other scum in there. Note the hesitant FOS for Pleonast.

Sacher points out inconsistencies in Kat’s argument in post 1177 (how she calls Diggit on what she considers a scum tell but gives Queuing a pass); in post 1183, Kat admits she has no reason for this other than that she’s familiar with Q’s “playing style.” Flimsy reason - perhaps enough for a suspicion?

1496

Just for curiosity sake, I looked back at the timing of Kat joining the game. Blaster Master announced her as ArizonaTeach’s replacement in the same post he announced he had received all of Night One’s instructions.

Kat’s first post was immediately following Day Two Dawn (as noted above by HazelNutCoffee) and included some analysis of Day One goings on.

Unless I’m mistaken, she never had the opportunity to converse with her fellow scum before she was lynched at the end of Day Two.

I’m not sure of the significance of this because I’m sure she was told who her fellow Cultists were. But if there was a particular strategy formed in that first Night, she wouldn’t have been a part of it.

1497

There’s not much I can say about this that I haven’t already here. If you think I am being untruthful, so be it.

You seem to have overlooked that my post referenced two remarks, in two separate posts, by Idle Thoughts, only one of which concerned a game other than this one. Did you read the original post, or did you rely only on the summary I recently provided? The characterization of Idle Thoughts’ post, or posts, as the case may be, as both “innocuous” and “heavy-handed” seems to me to be oddly oppositional.

Already explained here. The poster directly in question was ArizonaTeach. I wouldn’t characterize myself as inconsistent; rather, I failed to fully explain what I considered a relatively minor point regarding my vote at the time I cast it. Storyteller0910 asked about it, somewhat obliquely, and I responded. He seemed satisfied with my response; might I ask why you are not?

1498

Like I said, I’m not sure if I do or not. Let’s just say I find it worth noting.

Innocuous if devoid of ulterior motives; heavy-handed if truly an attempt by someone who is scum - is what I meant. I saw the original post, and while I only referenced the game quote what I said applies to both.

I read your response. I may be mis-remembering, because I was re-reading the whole thread at once and it was a daunting task, but I thought your response, while not an implausible one, was somewhat vague. (Actually, I’ll have to re-read your full response and get back to you on why I wasn’t satified with it. Sorry.)

But first I need some sleep. :slight_smile:

1499

Recent post sum up via me. Since I tend to reply to a LOT of things at once in long posts, some of these sum ups might be long in themselves:

1006-Mention of Night timepassers that some took suspicion over; trying to figure out what the possiblities were in the killing of zuma; Wondering why sach seems so sure of her/himself; increasing my suspicion of Mal and Pleonast based on a quote and vote from Pleonast

1010- Random wondering of why two players wrote “heesh” instead of “he”. :confused:

1013- Admitting I had forgottena few possiblites in post 1006

1023- Last post before I go for the night (much like this one is); agreeing with Hal who also said what I thought was probably the case in 1006; more stuff building up on my suspicion of Pleonast and Mal and looking at people who voted for Mtgman; bad pun :p;

1084- Replying to a post Mal made and trying to make sense of it and showing, what I believe, are minor descrepencies in it; mentiong that AZteach/Kat doesn’t seem too suspicions to me just yet even though a lot of people, at the time, was thinking he/she was; talking about the speed of the game; building yet more suspicion against Pleonast in my own head; clarifying info on past games to someone; reply to Kyrie about the Night activity mentions; saying my opinion that nobody should ever trust anyone totally in this game as I won’t be trusting anyone after Scuba Ben said he I was “less suspicious”; saying all those who I am suspicious of at the time; telling everyone my gender.

1088- Idle thoughts about how the scum may sometime (or even in this game maybe) actually do very obvious things since everyone always seems to brush it aside right off.

1089- Pointing out a correction to Scuba Ben that was mentioned by two others about the same time.

1092- Finding what Queuing was saying amusing because he seemed to be deliberately putting heat and suspicion on himself but seemed to be doing/saying it jokingly.

1097- Talk about my lack of life.

1118- Again addressing issues about my mention of boredom killers when the game is slow at Night; making a fun jab at FCOD over a striking of Gauderes Law on him.

1167- First hearing about the “third vote is scum” theory/strategy; more things that didn’t make too much sense regarding Mal; mentioning Pleonast again as someone I’m most suspicious of; wondering why Diggit was voting for Mad and Monkey when they hadn’t been around for ages instead of asking BM for a sub; talk of people who voted weird/seemingly threw votes away like Diggit just had (in my mind) and Pasta did earlier; sum up of my suspicion list again and the why’s; vote on Malacandra.

1226- Reply to Pasta over things I mentioned in 1167; Clarifying past games again; replying to Hal thanking him for explaining the third vote thing; two cents to Scuba Ben over what scum or town might or might not say; more talk about the speed of posting which was slow at the time; mentions of people who don’t seem to be posting at all; talking to fluid regarding things I said about scum being obvious in post 1088.

1228- Mention that I’m keeping my vote for now pending further info or observances.

1240- Not caring if BM extends Day or not.

1270- Post thinking Day should have been over by then but thinking it must not have been yet; reply to MHaye about questioning the third vote is scum strategy; addressing issues again about comments I’ve made regarding killing time at Night;

1271- Correcting myself

That was all you had for me sach, however after that…

1279- Finding Kat’s reasons for voting fairly weird/off including her failing to mention it was a tie breaking vote.

1281- Talking with MHaye about things in 1270; unvoting Mal making votes a tie again;

1285- Going back over Kat’s past recent posts more carefully and new posts with growing suspicion.

1288- Thinking that by the time I made it back online Day will have ended and hoping that Kat would reply again explaining things.

1289- Not knowing if BM would count things passed the deadline or if the Day was extended like he said it might be.

1290- Realizing I’m the only one still talking in the thread :p, that most think it may be Night, and saying I’ll shut up now.

1303- Hearing the official word on the extention and inquires of Kat again.

1308- Pointing out many things I find wrong and weird about Kat’s reasons; pointing out that it didn’t make sense she’d be more afraid to cast a tying vote than a tie breaking vote involving herself; seemingly catching her in an earlier recent slip up (?).

1309- Voting for Kat, which I meant to put in 1308.

1500

Sorry about being unclear; I was indeed referring to DarkCookies and not Kat with that pronoun.