Wow, what a piece of trash for a mother. My sympathies, Jodi, especially to your young niece.
As for things to do with an 8-year old girl: How about Build-A-Bear Workshop? The site has a store locator. I know most of the elementary age girls at my school eat that stuff up. My 5-year old son loves it, too- They have Build-A-Dino for the boys.
Fuck that fucking bitch. This makes me SO angry, especially when there are people out there like SSG Schwartz who can’t have kids.
I tend to agree with Ivylass. I wouldn’t cut the mom out completely, but I would definitely make it known that there is only so much she’s going to give, and not to expect or hope for anything more.
Someday, your niece will realize which parent really loves her.
Jodi,
With all due respect, I hope you’re exercising all the emotional restraint necessary to shield your niece, nephew and your brother from additional stress they do NOT need right now. Your sil does sound depressed, self-absorbed etc, but imho, you and your brother–if you really do care more about your niece and nephew’s emotional wellbeing–should count your blessings that the kids didn’t get to their mom’s, and experience her neurosis front and center… in their best interests–not yours or your brother’s–accept this setback and let it go… please leave your tensions at the front door and against all your logic, try to make light of the situation as best you can to you niece and nephew… demonstrate to them that while they cannot be with their mom, they are still with their loving dad and aunt, and all of you can still have a wonderful time if you WANT to. Kids are resilient… when your niece has crying spells, what does anyone do to stop it and get her smiling again? No matter how bad the mom may be to others, she is still their mom, obviously her daughter adores her, so please don’t talk negatively about their mom in their presence, certainly not to them… even if what you know is true and painful, at their young age, if you and your brother can’t fathom it, how could they?
What an awful thing. I’m sorry about your niece and nephew.
If I were this man, I would make this waste of space tell her daughter on the phone that she can’t come(and let waste of space do her own damage)–this takes the onus off him (Daddy’s keeping Mommy from me), and shows the daughter that it is Mom who doesn’t keep promises etc. I would not suggest that Dad say that Mom doesn’t keep promises etc–this kid will figure it out, pronto. Kids are not dumb. Heartbreaking. I worry about the 6 year old as well–boys need a Mom, just like girls need a Dad. 
What are the details of the divorce decree? Surely the older child is old enough to understand that two people “make a deal” and it’s up to both of them to honor it. I wouldn’t suggest going over it now, but soon.
I third the keep 'em busy with physical activities–go, go, go stuff. But be ready for tears as well–and sulks, pouts and mouthiness.
Oh, and any chance that you can take the kids for the afternoon and give Dad a break? I’m sure he needs it.
Sometimes I hate people. What a shitty person this woman is.
Age Eight has much more in common with Age Six and Seven than it does with Age Nine and Ten. Eights are still basically “little kids” who cry easily and are genuinely frightened by scary movies, and things that go bump, and disruptions to the daily schedule, whereas Nines and Tens are much tougher, don’t scare or upset as easily, and feel quite worldly and self-sufficient. Which they are, more or less.
So your niece’s tears are proportionately less serious than a comparable amount of upset would be, coming from, say, a Twelve or Fourteen. Not to denigrate her suffering or anything, because her little heart truly is broken, but–it’s temporary. More temporary than you may realize. And yeah, “water park” and “ice cream” and “Harry Potter Five Again!” will go a long way towards fixing it. You wouldn’t insult a teenager or an adult by trying to fob them off with “dinner and a movie, and you’ll feel all better!” But this is an Eight–dinner and a movie will work just fine.
No, she won’t. Because by that time, she will have learned (the hard way, unfortunately) that her mom is not god, her mom is not her friend, her mom is not even a decent human being, unless some miracle occurs and the SIL suddenly steps up to the plate. There will be other missed birthdays and broken promises, and eventually, usually by age 10 or 11, the kid involved gets a clue and grows a callus.
My BIL was a similarly worthless piece of shit who sired a beautiful nephew for us with his third wife. About the time Nevvie hit school age, BIL’s third marriage went the way of his first and second marriages, victims of his apparently congenital inability to follow through on any project he’s ever started (fixing porches, getting married, engendering children–doesn’t matter, he always, invariably, quits halfway through).
IOW, he split. Couldn’t do it any more. Boring.
And he took up the exact role of your SIL–the Good Guy, the Present-Bringer, and ultimately, the Promise-Breaker. Over and over and over again.
Finally, one day, when Nevvie was 14, even though his visitation rights called for him to not take the kid out of the state (Georgia, in this case), he took off to Alaska with Nevvie–and with Grandma, who has always been BIL’s enabler–and induced Nevvie to phone home and tell Mom they weren’t in Alaska. Well, she’s not stupid, she got the truth out of her giggling son in about 10 seconds, and she called the law on BIL, with the result that he never saw Nevvie again until the kid was 18 and left for college in Florida.
Anyway, the point is that Nevvie had no trouble at all understanding, after about age 12, that Dad was not going to follow through on anything he promised, and developed a tolerant, resilient attitude towards the whole thing. And after the Alaska dustup, he obtained a new insight into his dad, and any remaining vestige of respect (or emulation) went right out the window.
So your niece will come to that point, too. Just keep on not poor-mouthing Mom to her, preserve a tactful silence, and she’ll eventually figure it out for herself.
If your ex-SIL is saddled with an abusive ex-boyfriend who’s causing trouble, would you really want your niece and nephew there? I understand your concern for your brother – I have siblings, with and without children, with and without spouses, myself. I’m a parent who was himself briefly separated from wife and kids. Your brother’s ex may be the worst person yet given breath: women don’t generally lose custody in a divorce on a whim. But “even the wicked get worse than they deserve” and all that. She was an innocent child, someone’s daughter, someone’s niece, once too.
If you can’t pity her, forget her. If you love your niece, it’s by far the best course. If she identifies with her mother, as girls do whether they say so or not, exactly how do you propose to correct that? Better to try to encourage her to emulate her mother’s good qualities (I don’t believe your brother married someone with no redeeming features), which will soothe your niece as well as keep her grounded.
The airline tickets are money spent foolishly but, fortunately, without incurring the worst possible consequences. Think of it as missing a train that derailed, and go from there. Kids aren’t stupid. They know who makes breakfast every day. But kids have an active fantasy life, and sometimes it features real people as characters. Mess with these at your and their peril; leave them alone and kids will eventually retire them to the subconscious.
I believe that one of the great tragedies is that these children (bless them, it’s not easy going through a rough divorce with a nearly- or totally-absent parent) won’t get to see first-hand what their mother is like.
Or maybe it’s a good thing. This woman has an abusive ex, who is still involved in her life to some degree, from the sound of it. You don’t want him around the kids. Their mother seems to be so self-absorbed (not thinking of childcare, etc.) that she wouldn’t be able to give them the attention and love they need. Or feed them. And not being a mother…a real mother, she would be thrust into a parenting role she’s not ready for, and wouldn’t be able to handle things: bedtimes, meals, the inevitable brattiness, upset tummy…
So it is a good thing they won’t see her, but it might also be a good thing (in the way of “harsh lesson”) if they could.
But my heart goes out to these children, having seen my stepkids deal with their father’s inability to take care of them or even see them regularly (and he lived less than a mile away!) I can tell you that even though your neice loves her mommy, she probably is aware that what’s happening is not acceptable, and she probably knows who’s to blame. She won’t stop loving her mother, but she just may stop trusting her. I only hope she doesn’t have to go through too much pain before that happens.
And I agree with eleanorigby– your ex SIL should be the one to tell the kids what’s going on, and why (with your brother listening in to call her out if she lies). That’s what happened with my babydaddy, and it helped my steps come to terms with who their father is.
And kudos to you and your bro. Those kids are lucky to have people who demonstrate love in their lives.
Jodi, I wish I could offer you some advice or wisdom, that would make things better for you, that would heal the hurt your niece just took. I don’t have any. Just be there for her, her brother and your own brother. My thoughts are with all of you.
That would be a great plan, eleanorigby, if we were dealing with a rational adult who would - who is even able to - take responsibility for her own actions. But you and I both know enough about mental illness to know that this woman will lie, shade the facts, and use ad hominum attacks to make the blame someone else’s fault. It’s just not worth the effort to try to make the jerk in this story try to stand up for her actions. It’s even probable that she really will believe the excuses she gives.
The Monster’s father is another one of these sorts of parents. He insists on every jot and tittle for what he’s due in any of the child custody arrangements, but gets shocked when he’s held to the same standards. His lawyer during the original arrangement insisted on a clause that any time either parent took The Monster out of state for a trip, the non-travelling parent had to be presented with a booked flight, or bus trip, letting them know when they would return.
He then not four months after that agreement was finalized tried to take The Monster to Florida, and refused to finalize when or how he’d be coming home - because he’d just “work his way home.” He’d just had his house foreclosed, and his sister had just moved to Florida, too. For some reason The Monster’s mommy didn’t like the looks of this situation, and had no trouble at all getting an emergency restraining order, preventing him from taking The Monster with him for the holiday. (In the interests of clarity, I was with the chorus of people telling her not to let him take The Monster out of state without the return tickets the custody agreement required.)
And the whole debacle, in his mind, was all The Monster’s mommy’s fault - because she was being an evil bitch.
He’s done the same reasoning with things like a drug overdose for his daughter, too.
It’s just not worth trying to make this sort of shitstain stand up for their responsibilities.
I can see the worries for the child’s future - but right now, I’m seeing a present where The Monster is going through all sorts of problems, in part because of the way her father has been using her as a football - often as a result of him being held accountable for some of his actions (or inactions).
I would keep a record of the kids’ mother flaking out on them. Airline ticket receipts, dates… heck, even a picture of the unneeded cake. Never know when it might come in handy.
Anyway, I don’t really understand the advice to not speak negatively in front of a deadbeat’s child. I don’t see what keeping quiet and nice accomplishes. You don’t need to trash the parent, but if he or she is hurting the child and is setting a poor example, why allow the child to continue thinking they’re a good parent, just unable to attend, not feeling well, unlucky, busy, etc.?
If you want to keep kids from growing up to emulate an irresponsible person’s behavior, it starts with acknowledging the bad behavior and making it clear why it’s bad. If it were any other person, such as a neighbor or another child, this would be done in a heartbeat. Why is it different with a parent?
“Sweetheart, Mommy wanted to come, but she didn’t make arrangements with her job in time. So now she can’t come because she has to work. Next time, hopefully, she’ll plan better.”
“Sweetheart, your mommy planned on visiting, but she didn’t save enough money last week to come. Maybe next time she’ll put the money aside ahead of time so she can make it.”
In time, the child will come to his or her own conclusions about the kind of person their parent is and who the bad guy really is. It’s not enough, IMO, to just put on a nice face and think they’ll figure it out eventually. What if they don’t? What if they don’t figure it out until they’re 30?
Best wishes to your brother and niece, Jodi.
I second this, as well as counseling for the little girl, so she can unlearn the bad traits of her mother. Let her keep the good habits and good memories though. For consolation, lots of unconditional love, of course. Let her know you will always love her, just because she is herself. (Poor phrasing in a way I know, but I hope that makes sense.) I’d get the little boy some counseling also, because he needs a good strong female to look up to so he can learn to respect women and treat them as equals and ladies.
Because there is a difference between a neighbor and a parent. Children’s identities are all caught up with their parents in such ways that they aren’t with the neighbors.
The kids will figure it out on their own. You can’t fool them for very long.
Don’t forget the zoo, folks. No, I’m not talking about the life of Jodi’s SIL. I’m talking about a great place to take a couple of kids to get their minds off their troubles. (It’s been known to work on adults, too.) Jodi, maybe you could do something special with just your niece, not to make up for her mother’s absence, but because you love her and she’s your favoritest niece. If it’s something she’s never done before, so much the better. Horseback riding, maybe? Build-a-Bear sounds good to me, too, and that way she can have someone she can talk to whenever she feels sad and someone she can remember happy times with.
Reality, sometimes, bites, and the reality is unless she makes some major life changes, your SIL isn’t going to be a good mother until and unless she learns to consider her children’s needs before hers. You can’t arrange for the universe to whack her upside the head with a two-by-four, even with several Dopers wishing it would do that. You can help your niece get used to the idea that, no matter how much we love someone and no matter how much they say they love us, sometimes people don’t do right by the people they love and they’re better off without each other. Come to think of it, it sounds like your SIL should have learned that lesson sooner. Your niece can love her mother, and her mother may well, in her own way, love her, but she’s not the kind of mother who remembers your birthday, or comforts you when you feel sad, or, sadly, who can be counted on to be there when you need her, or even want her. Let your niece shed a few tears, then help her find a new way to be happy. It’s a rotten lesson for an 8 year old to learn, though.
Your brother sounds like a great guy, and I wish both of you luck salvaging this. I’m sure you’ll both find a way to make the good memories outweigh the bad. May you all enjoy a some profound fun and silliness until you’re crying with laughter, not sorrow!
Is there a way to have a counselor begin to break the news to her about her mother’s non-support once she becomes old enough to know? I don’t consider that a dirty tactic at all. This way, the counselor can help her evaluate things with the blinders off, so she can better decide how she wants to continue to grow into adulthood. It’d give her a decent chance at least.
I agree with you,** AudreyK**. I would start pointing that stuff out–not excessively, not to hurt, but to show reality.
I think the phone thing could work–IF Dad is listening in. I can’t help but think that having Dad tell these kids spares the Mom from the fallout of any of her actions. Look what she got from this last debacle: a free plane ticket and no kid worries. Look what the kids got: disappointment and hurt. Look what Dad got: onus on him, money gone and hurting kids. Guess who’s ahead? It isn’t right that Mom’s shit should be carried by 3 other people.
Frankly, I don’t care if she is an addict, mentally ill or a perpetual asshole–NO ONE gets to do what she does without consequences. It’s her kids that are paying the price (and Dad, too). She needs to hear the wails or cries or the deep breath, “it’s ok Mommy, I love you” coming out of her daughter’s mouth. Dad can deal with any and all BS coming from Mom after the phone call.
You know Jodi, there is nothing like being the third man in on a fight. You get to kick the ass of the person already losing or in this case shape the argument so you can’t lose. All we have is your side of this triangle, and frankly, I don’t believe a word you say.
It’s amazing that you would take your brother’s side to revile some bitch you obviously hate. Your niece may love her because she is indeed the better parent, no matter your screaming protests here.
I really hate to see this kind of shit, the “Please tell me how wonderfully right I am in hating this bitch you will never meet, so you have no risk,” kind of post. Are you really that insecure that you would seek the affirmation of a message board so you can go on hating this woman?
I’m not even going to start on the SIL and her bullshit… there will be killin’… :mad:
However, can I second Build-A-Bear? My boys (5 & 7) love it! And maybe some shopping and a big-girl lunch, if she’s into that? And telling her again how great she is, and how much you love spending time with her?
Okay, I can’t help it… what a piece of crap your SIL is. Substance abuse, by any chance? That’s the only way I could possibly see myself abandoning my kids. I couldn’t live without my boys and I would move heaven and earth to always be with them.
God damn, I want to hit something… preferably your SIL… with my car…
Whoa- what the fuck? Do you have a grudge against Jodi or something? Why would you think she is lying?
And who fucking cares, anyway? Why post here, if you think the thread is absurd? Fuck off, then, without sharing.
Jodi, for all that sad crap her Mom is doing, your niece has a great example of a strong smart woman in you. Give her all kinds of fun activity in the visit, but encourage her to talk to you as well. I am not a parent, but have enjoyed the role of Aunt/safe space to talk with my nephew. It’s a precious space, apart from the parental dictates, but as a caring adult who absolutely loves them. Listen, treat her concerns seriously, and give great hugs. Be the safe loving harbor she craves. Not as Mom, of course, but a good adult she can count on.
In preview, I see brownie55’s post: What are you going on about? Jodi’s post seems pretty rational and clear cut as to what happened. I don’t get your outrage.
Wow!! WTF??? Do you have some personal grudge? Did you miss your meds? Do you want to be accused of being a troll? Are you the mother of these children? I mean really, WTF? Do you need attention that badly?
SSG Schwartz
Okay, THAT made me laugh out loud! Thanks, sarge!