making america great again

[Grestarian]

Moderators, I apologize if this is junior-modding (and, even more infuriating, written in my exceedingly verbose style) but I just felt that this is the fourth or fifth time this question has been raised and only the first time I’ve seen responses that were actually on-topic.

I, for one, think Flyer has stated his perspective and, as has happened in many threads (whether or not they involve President Trump), his level of devout Christian dedication* has been sufficiently stomped on by other responders. [There have been many threads in which Christians have shared their views but, lacking such an extreme position, they have not been so intensely singed by responses to those views.]

I realize there’s still at least one serious question about his original response that remains to be addressed, but I still suggest to you all that engaging in debate about his response and/or posting what amounts to we can’t have again what we never had before is really an unnecessary distraction (waste of bandwidth) from the original question of this thread. Let’s just stop dignifying the Flyer’s response by responding to it; let’s stop making sport of the Christian like we’re Romans at a colliseum event.

So, yes, it’s easy to quote the ancient 7-up commercial and say, “Never had it; never will! Ah-ha ha-ha ha!” or rip Christianity for its abuses (and even I think it’s extreme to condemn the whole broad spectrum of the faith as doing nothing but EVIL to the world), but those are old tired answers and it’s more refreshing to see some people actually try to suggest a period and justify their nomination – largely because it gives me a deeper understanding of history than I ever got in school.

I realize Mr. Trump’s nostalgic platform was (is?) really catering to a generation that idolizes a much earlier period, but what about the late 1990’s? I went to Japan for a year in the beginning of 1995 and came back to a very different USA. The Internet had gone commercial, GPS technology had been unshackled, and the dot-com boom was nullifying the National Debt. Was the USA great back then?

–G?
*There’s a thread somewhere around here in which someone asks why Dopers are so hard on Christians. The best response was that it’s not so much that this population dislikes Christianity but that, in a venue dedicated to fighting ignorance, we acknowledge faith but find expressions of blind faith to be intolerable. In fact, what I like about this thread and the on-topic analysis is that we’re scrutinizing the blind faith behind Nationalism and fighting the ignorance therein.

[eschereal]

@LSLGuy

If you’d like to quibble about whether that’s the first sentence, the first substantive sentence, or the second sentence be my guest. I can reasonably agree with any of those interpretations.

you said

@LSLGuy

… the very first sentence of our very first document, the Declaration of Independence …

Sorry if that is picayune, but someone picking it up to see what you were referring to might get confused.

And really, it does matter. The Declaration was not really a founding document, it was a letter to George Hanover, Hank Bathurst, Fred North, et al, explaining “Look here, this is the shit you have piled upon us, you fuckwads, we have had enough, μολων λαβέ.”

Nevermind the fact that “… all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” carried with it some very loathsome qualifications.

It is a lovely sentiment and all, but it would help a lot if it actually meant what it said.

[bobot]

I don’t understand what this “again” bullshit is about. Let’s make it truly greater than it has been “for once”, or “for a change” and finally be inlusive about it.

[Trinopus]

@Grestarian

. . . but what about the late 1990’s? I went to Japan for a year in the beginning of 1995 and came back to a very different USA. The Internet had gone commercial, GPS technology had been unshackled, and the dot-com boom was nullifying the National Debt. Was the USA great back then?

Heck, yes! Those were great times indeed. We had an era of peace and prosperity – we even balanced the national budget! Times were so good, we could afford to waste our time and money on a sex-scandal and impeachment, a lot of sound and fury that signified nothing at all. You know times are good when the President lying about receiving oral sex is the single most important thing for Congress to focus on!

More seriously, America has always been great, and has spent the vast majority of its history being greater than it ever had been before. Our setbacks have always been brief and fairly quickly recovered. The Great Depression was probably our single greatest falling away from previous greatness…and it ended with “The Greatest Generation” saving the world from fascism.

(The Marshall Plan was, quite possibly, America’s finest moment.)

[bobot]

@bobot

I don’t understand what this “again” bullshit is about. Let’s make it truly greater than it has been “for once”, or “for a change” and finally be inlusive about it.

That word is supposed to be “inclusive”.

[msmith537]

@Grestarian

I realize Mr. Trump’s nostalgic platform was (is?) really catering to a generation that idolizes a much earlier period, but what about the late 1990’s? I went to Japan for a year in the beginning of 1995 and came back to a very different USA. The Internet had gone commercial, GPS technology had been unshackled, and the dot-com boom was nullifying the National Debt. Was the USA great back then?[/COLOR]

It’s important to remember that there are large segments of the population that didn’t feel they directly benefited from the 90s tech boom. I graduated college in 1995 and the out of work blue collar steelworkers in town certainly didn’t share the optimism of the young affluent college grads heading off to work in their new high-paying tech and finance jobs.

Also recall that boom came to a crashing halt in 2001, which also coincided with 9/11 and the collapse of Enron and Arthur Andersen. And you had an even worse collapse in 2008. While cycles of boom and recession are a natural part of the economy, these last few have more of a feel of an overall systematic issue where the booms cause a relatively small privileged population to become exceedingly rich on highly speculative and risky ventures, while the collapse cases massive pain for everyone.

[septimus]

@LSLGuy

Ref Laffer curve - Wikipedia it’s logically possible that rate reductions could, after a lag, grow total tax revenues. And therefore reduce deficits.

Logically possible? Yes. But Idiotism takes this possibility far beyond rational limits. Since the hypocrites do not have the concept of taxes ever being too low, Voyager has renamed the Laffer Curve to be the Escher Curve — there is no limit to increasing revenue from tax cuts. :smack:

@wolfpup

ISTM that there are whole classes of people who would be very offended by [Flyer’s post], and it’s more than a little ironic that you’re the one who claims to be insulted.

To the contrary, I think we owe Flyer our gratitude. OP wanted insight into Trumpist thinking, and Flyer obliged.

@Backcountry_Medic

This slogan is essentially a Rorschach blot for idiots. It’s a bumper sticker slogan for people who feel uncomfortable thinking for more than 10 seconds at a time.

This is a beautiful synopsis of Trumpism.

@Reddy_Mercury

America has never been great. It is always in constant evolution, always changing. It has always had greatness, as well as great flaws. There is no magical time we can return to in totality. We can look to the 1950s-1960s expansion of the middle class - as long as we don’t also take the racism and segregation that was part of that era. We can look to the decency and politenes of past eras - as long as that doesn’t also include the sexism and paternalism.

America has always been great and horrible at the same time. The best days are always ahead.

The above post seems insightful.

@Reddy_Mercury

Most Cultural Marxists want the opposite: Revenge, with the White Male rendered docile, obedient, humbled, and broken, a tail between his legs; apologetic; lacking all confidence and any sense of authority.

Are there two people sharing the Reddy Mercury account? I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt when you were sputtering at windmills in the other thread, but the above is just ☗☗☗☗☗ [expunged]. Please tell us it is parody!

@Flyer

I have said over and over again that I did not vote for Trump; I voted against Clinton.

This excuse is preciously silly. When you went in the voting booth, where did you stick your little pin? Which lever did you pull?

[Dr.Crap]

For He foreordained us to be adopted as His own children through Lord Chaos, in accordance with the purpose of His Fourth Turning.

[Guinastasia]

@Nava

You’ve never heard of Joan of Arc? That was one of the charges against her, that she dressed like a man. Also a source of scandal for many feminists from the first half of the 20th century. Of course, women wearing pants has only been considered cross-dressing since pants themselves were invented, but yeah, it isn’t exactly a novel idea.

No shit. However, Flyer is saying that a woman living today, right now, is cross-dressing if she wears pants. THAT is what I’m talking about.

[Broomstick]

Huh, wonder what Flyer would make of the guy who strolled through my check-out line last night wearing a kilt? Nevermind, pretty I sure I know already.

[FlyingRat]

Everytime I hear MAGA I come back to Langston Hughes in 1935.

@Langston Hughes - Let America Be America Again

Yet I’m the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That’s made America the land it has become.
O, I’m the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home—
For I’m the one who left dark Ireland’s shore,
And Poland’s plain, and England’s grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa’s strand I came
To build a “homeland of the free.”

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we’ve dreamed
And all the songs we’ve sung
And all the hopes we’ve held
And all the flags we’ve hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay—
Except the dream that’s almost dead today.

O, let America be America again—
The land that never has been yet—
And yet must be—the land where every man is free.
The land that’s mine—the poor man’s, Indian’s, Negro’s, ME—
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

[Procrustus]

@Flyer

That’s one of the ways that God intended the sexes to be distinguished from each other.

Thank you, God. It’s important to know who is male and who is not before I get their pants off.

[msmith537]

@Grestarian

*There’s a thread somewhere around here in which someone asks why Dopers are so hard on Christians. The best response was that it’s not so much that this population dislikes Christianity but that, in a venue dedicated to fighting ignorance, we acknowledge faith but find expressions of blind faith to be intolerable. In fact, what I like about this thread and the on-topic analysis is that we’re scrutinizing the blind faith behind Nationalism and fighting the ignorance therein.

I think it largely has to do with the fact that there is (or should be) little parity between arguments based on faith (Christian or otherwise) and arguments based on facts, logic and reason. Particularly when much of those arguments are used to keep segments of people constrained to the status of second class citizens.