While we’re at it … can we stop saying dogs are domesticated wolves …
I support this OP. This board definitely trends male centric. I’m an old broad, so I’m used to just tuning that garbage out; thanks to the OP (who I assume is younger than I am) for pointing out how tired this misogynistic bullshit is and starting a thread about it. I think it’s kind of proving your point that there are so many guys lining up to pooh-pooh your opinion, Sunny Daze.
This is definitely something that has happened to this board.
This is almost exactly the response I got from a guy in real life when I was talking about how tired I am of guys staring at my tits all the time.
Actually, a real feminist would tell you that men and women are much more alike than different, and most of our differences are socially constructed. In other words, you’re spouting MRA bullshit.
Why? Why are you telling women not to be offended by offensive things, yet if there were something offensive to a black person, well, that’s different? No, it isn’t. It’s not just about reading a Ginger vs. Maryann thread or reading any thread at all. It’s the pattern and the environment of intolerance towards what concerns women that’s created by it.
I never said anything that counters that. Take your hate speech elsewhere please.
Sure you did!
Socially constructed. There’s nothing in men’s biology that’s compelling you to do that. Find me some science that disputes it.
Horse pucky. Socially constructed.
I’m not going anywhere.
Male and female behaviors may be socially constructed but tell me about a case where they are not different. You don’t have any science on your side at all.
No one is forcing you to participate in any thread.
Want to have more female focused threads? Make them.
Well I have some science. Men have stronger libido than women, though expression of the same adds a layer of complication.
Cite: Literature review by Baumeister, Catanese, and Vohs: “Is There a Gender Difference in Strength of Sex Drive? Theoretical
Views, Conceptual Distinctions, and a Review of Relevant Evidence” Personality and Social Psychology Review 2001
Abstract:
[INDENT][INDENT]The sex drive refers to the strength of sexual motivation. Across many different studies and measures, men have been shown to have more frequent and more intense sexual desires than women, as reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex, frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures. No contrary findings (indicating stronger sexual motivation among women) were found. Hence we conclude that the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive. The gender difference in sex drive should not be generalized to other constructs such as sexual or orgasmic capacity, enjoyment of sex, or extrinsically motivated sex.
[/INDENT][/INDENT] http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.5369&rep=rep1&type=pdf
I confess to a degree of curiosity about the age profile of the critics of male centrism on this board. I suspect it trends older, matching the general audience of this message board.
What is the life expectancy of women vs. men? 93% of on the job deaths are men, mostly in blue collar jobs. So the in my mind the consequences of not caring about blue collar workers, thinking they are less important, less worthy people has consequences - at least by the logic you are using.
“We’ll allow it.”
Tell me, have you looked at how many other threads there are? Thousands. There isn’t a constant stream.
That’s partly because domestic violence murders of homemakers aren’t listed as “workplace deaths”
But you don’t really make that case, because your examples are poor.
People can discuss whether they find someone attractive or not. Men are posting, but women can post, too. It is not sexual objectification, because we discuss them as people. The disparity only exists because you guys actively choose not to make similar threads. That’s fine, but you can’t attack us for that. I may be a feminist, but I am a 100% sex-positive feminist.
The male gaze question wasn’t quite what I was expecting, either, but it was a legitimate topic. Whether you can tell an author is a man by their use of the legitimate, feminist concept of “male gaze” is a legitimate question. The answer actually was surprising: no, because female authors will use it, too. Stupid patriarchy.
I do agree there are the occasional sexist thread like the whole “rape accusers” thing. But what you neglect to mention is that these are started by a minority of posters and the vast majority, men and women, always fight back against them. I would love it if we could stop having those threads, but, absent a ruling that will never happen, I can’t see what else we can do.
Then there’s the Skald hornet nest. I don’t want to get into it entirely, because my post would become primarily about that. But the problem there was clearly tactics. When people (admittedly not mostly women) chose to harass him, people got mad and fought back. When you made an ATMB thread about the real underlying issue of unexpected graphic and disturbing sexual content, you got what you wanted, and all but one poster was happy with the solution. You actually got trigger warnings on this board! I am so fucking proud!!!
The last ATMB thread is one I “noped” out of after I made my comment. But, before I did, all I saw were people arguing with a different concept: whether a reverse trigger was grounds for a Warning. They weren’t upset about the ruling itself. (And my post was all about seeing things from Skald’s point of view, and I stand by it. I did not defend Skald’s being petulant about a new rule, I just said I understood why he might feel that way.)
Again, I am a full-on feminist. Hell, I am called an SJW so often that I’ve decided to own it. And, yes, I sure as hell notice problems on this board. I see the whole “PC is evil” bullshit, which is a lot of the problem with anything. And, hell, I can even agree that at least some posters are sexist assholes.
But I just don’t find your examples to prove anything about this board. They at most prove something about a few asshole posters. The real problem is that this board just doesn’t actually have anti-bigotry policies.
And, like gamers’ conventions, the lack of such tends to chase diversity away. Ironically, more rules make for greater freedom for everyone.
I do notice one thing I didn’t mention: bringing up poor examples hurts the conversation.
Look at how many guys are focused almost entirely on the “which character is hotter” threads. That just is not an issue that everyone agrees is a sexism problem.
As a sex positive feminist, my solution is “Go make your own threads about sexy male characters.” Hell, I’ve even participated in a few, and I’m straight. But I can still have an opinion on which character I like better, or who I think his more handsome.
Far better is talking about the assholes who pretend that false rape accusations are a huge problem. Or, hell, we could talk about how feelings are important, and not something to be ignored. We can talk about callousness or lack of empathy. Those are, IMHO, the real anti-women things that happen on this board–in result, if not in intention.
Okay…
I am willing to bet most people who use the term “socially constructed” and are in favor of the idea are on a certain end of the political spectrum.
Humans are more intelligent animals, we are social creatures, therefore most things we do or perceive with each other are ‘socially constructed’ and sex/gender being one item for eons is not going to change because of some sociology buzzwords and theories.
Call them what you (general you) want, label them whatever. There are inherent differences in behavior and physiology that are unique to each sex due to chemical reactions, genetic predispositions, hormones et al. Males are one, Females are another. Many biological traits are hard written and instinctive. No amount of ideological posturing is going to change that.
Men are a certain way and Women are a certain way, biologically, therefore behaviors are intrinsically different in their natural state. The theory of sex/gender being socially constructed was coined/studied for scientific purposes and adopted by feminist groups in an attempt to either slander men, or change societal structure, either way there is an angle. Instead of accepting what is, and has been accepted, it has to be changed to support the few who disagree. Seems like most political aspirations and agenda these days seems to follow suit or at least in the general direction of that. Gender/Sex is just another one.
I support the OP. If I’m reading it right, she’s not saying anyone or any topic should be banned, or anything should be censored, she’s just giving her opinion on the board culture and trends and how these things might make her and others feel, and the possibility that it might be dissuading some potential contributors from contributing to the board.
Discussions like this have the potential to improve board culture.
Yeah, I think that condescendingly explaining to a bunch of women what does and doesn’t constitute misogyny is, um, what’s the word? Tip of my tongue. Forget my own head next. Oh, yeah. Misogynist.
Or perhaps we could talk about the arseholes who deliberately misconstrue and exaggerate people reporting that false accusations exist into saying that the latter are saying that it’s a huge problem?
The OP is making the same observation I’ve quietly made with regards to race. There was a time when we had quite a few black Dopers. Like, remember Hippy Hollow? auntie em? pizzabrat? nevadaexile? MeanOldLady? UrbanChic? jali? Nzinga, Seated? There are others who have noped out through the years and unfortunately can’t remember them.
I miss their voices. And while I don’t know why they all stopped posting, I do know that Hippy finds this place frustrating. I also find this place frustrating, and it has become even more frustrating over recent years. Like, it seems like I haven’t been able to post in Cafe Society lately without encountering dickish-in-a-racially-tinged-way responses. I fear one day I will just say “fuck it” and lose my posting privileges just so I can beat the motherfuckers down on final time.
The board is not this liberal haven the conservatives posters portray it is. And it shows in the lack of diversity.