…I’m not sure that this was “the idea.” For starters: if you aren’t tuned into the SW culture in any way how would you even know that these characters were in Clone Wars or Rebels? I mean I only found out that Cobb Vanth was from the books when I stumbled across that fact because I hang out in geek parts of the internet.
The goal was to set up these characters for their own TV shows and they did that well enough.
But if you had never heard of Ahsoka before and if your first exposure to her was as the “jedi-type person” who’s job in the story was to tell the protagonist to “then go see to other thing” then it isn’t the fault of the audience that that’s how they came across.
Its a risk the story-tellers chose to make. I think they made the correct choice: it worked brilliantly for both myself and other fans of the character and it opened up the universe for me. But its not unfair to say that she barely got any development in that episode and if you didn’t know her back story (or even know that she had a back story) then there is a good chance the character wouldn’t work for everyone. And that’s okay.
Seriously? Din underwent an amazing transformation and growth in this season. He actually took his helmet off - in front of people! Then he sat and drank - again in front of people. Then, after all was said and done and all the people who saw his face were dead - except one - let the guy live with a simple “And I never saw your face.”. The Din of Season 1 could never have lived with that. He’s learning that there are other "Way"s to live.
I’m meaning characters introduced in Season 2. And in my opinion, showing Pedro’s face wasn’t a huge character development. He showed his face in Season 1. But mostly, I’m concerned about the Season 2 characters.
…why would a casual viewer look up a random guest star characters name? Especially if they enjoyed the first season that didn’t rely on decades of lore and character development?
They’re not random. They’re the character they are confused about. Do none of you know how people’s brains work? If you are confused by things and want to understand it, you look it up. It’s called research.
And that the show is treating all viewers as intelligent curious people with the internet and streaming TV at their fingertips, rather than needing to be spoonfed details in painful exposition, should be lauded, not condemned.
…why would you know that a random character that maybe appeared on screen for less than maybe fifteen minutes needed further research? This isn’t a normal television expectation. They featured Ahsoka because she was getting her own series and as a gift to the fans. But when you do that you are always going to run the risk of alienating people not familiar with the lore. I love what they did and appreciate that they didn’t feel a need to pander to the casual viewer. But you have to concede that they did pander to us.
I don’t quite get this. If you’re not familiar with the character from other media, isn’t it just the same as having a wholly original character introduced into the storyline? How does the character having a history in a different show make her uninteresting in this one?
on one level it is just the same as having a wholly original character introduced into the storyline. But, I think the point being made is that the writers took the time to flesh out the “new” characters such as Kuill, and Greef, which made them more interesting to the casual viewer. Whereas the “older” characters such as Ashoka and Bo Karan were not given much dimensionality. Having their back stories in other works isn’t what make these characters flat and unexciting. It’s that we were given no good reason to care about them in this story, other than to move the plot forward. They could have been anyone and done the same thing.
If you already know their backstory or even just who they are and how they fit into the larger universe, it adds a layer of enjoyment that I and others didn’t get.
It is most likely due to that fact that some of the characters were new to the writers, as well, and therefore it was more intriguing to them to get to know them at the same time as the viewers.
I think I broadly agree with your criticism—the characters, whether pulled from other media or not, should be able to stand on their own, and I agree that this was lacking in this series. But the above is a somewhat weird way of putting it. Star Wars is a huge, interconnected universe; it’s not really reasonable to ask somebody writing a story within that universe to simply focus on that particular sliver you happen to be familiar with, and ignore all the rest.
Suppose it was all just one big show, with lots of series and episodes, and you’ve just watched series 9, 10, and 11 (or something). Even if those happen to be the most popular series, would it really be a sensible request to the writers to please only use characters introduced in those particular series in later ones? I don’t think so.
Still, I think that characters should have a larger role to play than just calling back to other bits of media—they should have their own arc, and not just function as a stand-in. I think that for The Marshal, this was actually accomplished—I wasn’t familiar with the character before, but I didn’t feel he was out of place, or lacked development. The same didn’t quite work for Ahsoka, I think: I was (somewhat) familiar with that character, but beyond calling on that familiarity, she didn’t seem to serve much of a purpose. The solution wouldn’t be to just have some other random Jedi introduced here with no ties to the larger SW universe, but rather, to develop that character in some way or another, and not let those back-ties stand in for this development.
Depends on how they are written. Are they interesting stand alone or are they interesting only because you know them? Sometimes the established love of fans for a character allows writers and actors to be lazy. Again like an in joke … just saying a punchline or making a reference can make one of the in crowd smile, while there is nothing funny about the isolated line to others. “At the end of the day it’s about a good story well told” … if that is the case without the layers of knowledge references to characters and Easter eggs bring then it works for all of us.
I made a case a few years back that, if you look at the original film trilogy, there aren’t all that many examples of Storm Troopers just being bad shots. Most of the examples used to support this notion are situations in which the Troopers are up against Force users, who we know can skew people’s perceptions, or those in which the Troopers had been ordered to let the Good Guys escape (or progress towards their goal).
As you say, the first time we see them in action, they mop the floor with the crew of the Tantive IV. When else do we see them in action?
During the escape from the Death Star. Remember that the Empire had placed a tracking device on the Falcon, with the intent of using it to find the hidden Rebel Base. All that blasterfire was for show, the Empire wanted the heroes to escape.
Next, we see them taking over the base on Hoth, which is another case of them just mopping the floor with the Rebels.
Then, there’s the takeover of Cloud City. They have complete control of the city before the heroes even know they’re there. And when Luke shows up, they’ve again been ordered to let him make his way to the carbon freezing chamber. Again, their blasterfire is just for show - they quite efficiently herd Luke to exactly where Vader wanted him.
In Return of the Jedi, we have the running battle on the speeder bikes. Firstly, shooting from a moving bike is pretty hard, and secondly, they were fighting Luke, who was, like, the third best Force user in the Galaxy at that time. So yeah, they were bad shots, but not because they’re inherently low-skilled at shooting.
The only real battle they ever lost would be the final battle with the Ewoks. And I think most people agree the whole notion of Ewoks was a bad idea. We should also note that the Stormtroopers on Endor had Our Heroes surrounded and surrendered before the Ewok Factor screwed everything up.
Of the four examples of major combat by Troopers who weren’t ordered to play dumb, they clearly won three, and the fourth was a fluke Teddy Bear loss.
Heh, yeah, maybe the stormtroopers aren’t actually the merciless fanatics we all think they are - they just couldn’t bring themselves to shoot cute little teddy bears. Little realizing the stew pot that awaited them…
I don’t see any difference between the Ashoka introduction and Xi’an i wouldn’t be surprised if either showed up the future they moved Mando’s character development a little but they weren’t fleshed out full characters even Mayfield wasn’t much the first time around.
Now, Bo Katan had two episodes this season and certainly got more character development. We’ve learned a bit about her past and her beliefs. With both having two episodes about them I don’t see much character development difference between Mayfield and Bo.
Sure if you were intrigued you could learn a lot more about Bo, Asoka, or Boba but their character development was hardly lacking on screen. I think the non expanded universe people are just upset because they had less enjoyment than other people and they prefer new characters because they have as much enjoyment as anyone else.
Just to give a counter-point, my wife has no idea who Ahsoka or Bo Katan are and has no idea they’re from Clone Wars. So she just treats them like any other character that’s been introduced and doesn’t really think there’s anything “missing” about them. I think the fans “left in the lurch” are the people who are knowledgeable enough to know those are characters from the EU but haven’t actually seen them.