Actually, based on DOD troop figures, it’s probably close to 99.95% America’s fault.
It’s early still, but media experts are saying the “tape” of her point-blank shooting originated in al-Falluja. On the recording I’ve seen, the militants’ statements are very short and her execution is (thankfully) brief, but seems uncharacteristically hurried. Wouldn’t it be dreadful if Margaret Hassan’s death was precipitated by our balls-out incursion?
Worse yet, this recording was purportedly forwarded to Aljazeera from among the “Falluja execution cache” and we’ve been sitting on it for days.
Odd that it’s come out today, mere hours after publication of the Marine Corps mosque shooting?
I mean, I sure feel bad for poor Nick Berg, but his murder came at just the right time. Abu Ghraib was hardly an atrocity after that.
No, I think you missed my point. If the purpose of the war were to secure oilfields, Iraq was an infinitely better choice than Saudi Arabia. It was pretty much the best choice period. If that were that point. Think about it–if oil were the primary goal, we’d go after the country with the greatest payoff for the least risk. SA in no way meets that criterion. Iraq does.
Of course, to say that the war has nothing to do with oil is just as silly as saying it has everything to do with oil, but that’s fodder for another thread.
Was the Star Spangled Banner playing in the back of your head as you wrote this?
Exactly what job are our service men and women over there for, under-prepared, under-manned, and poorly supervised? Beyond the ‘hearts and minds’ dribble, do you really know? It wasn’t to find WMDs. It wasn’t to take and then retake cities because you can’t keep them from sliding into lawlessness. It wasn’t to keep hundreds of tons of munitions secure. Support of our troops would involve not spending their blood so cheaply.
No, my friend. If I cut off your head, it is my fault. Leave the leftists to rationalize the deeds of cowards who kidnap and kill defenseless people. Your standing there is like wiping your feet on a muddy rug.
Damn, you’re right! The US military is so far gone we can’t match up to a group of terrorist rag-tags. Fuck, better get home and hope France doesn’t invade! How would we ever stand up to them?
We’ll win the war. Guaranteed. Slam me all you want, it’ll come to pass.
The general hatred of the US military (and Administration, same thing) on these boards, is indicative of world opinion. I can accept that, but as a citizen, I have a little more stake in the outcome. And for the US detractors, you’re in the minority.
I don’t care if the opposition is St. Margaret’s Ladies’ Intramural Guerilla Warfare Club, you still don’t invade because you feel it’s easy. And what would be considered a win? When Bush says it’s a win? Listen to me carefully: You will never, in our lifetime, unify warring Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish tribes. It’s an untenable situation. There is no single ‘Iraq’ to bring peace to. It was foolish to put the lives of civilians and soldiers alike on the line to chase non-existent WMDs.
And since you are using the term terrorist, let’s be clear. The Terrorists, with a capital T, that attacked within the US borders are not the terrorists that you refer to fighting a guerilla war within Iraq. Terrorism is a method, it’s not a location, religion, or culture. I just thought you should know.
There seem to be a few that have organized. Maybe it will take the splintering of Iraq to achieve peace. I don’t know. There are those with better knowledge than I and they’ll work it out. If you have a better plan, I wonder why you’re not directly involved.
I’m starting to see this as Yugoslavia was the last 2 decades. Josep Tito was a hard-ass that wouldn’t put up with any of the ethnic shit the US had to sort out. Hussein is kind of the same. Peace through terror. But nobody was happy. Nobody had a problem going into Kosovo, to defend Muslims, and I don’t remember seeing any mullahs condemning us. I also don’t remember anyone stirring up shit that we were the Great Satan for bombing the shit out of the area. (Including the Chinese Embassy. Forgot about that?)
I guess since it was a European country it was ok. I can only wish to get a list of areas we’re allowed to defend the rights of people. It would be helpful if we knew which countries are allowed to keep their citizens in bondage with no protection from the US. Otherwise, we’re derided as not caring about the oppressed in such countries.
Maybe the US should just stay out of everyone’s affairs and become more isolationist? It looks like this would make the world happiest.
I’m aware of your location. I was talking more to those outside the US. I agree with you about .3% of the time, but always hope you’re safe. (And lemme know if you see anyone suspicious)
That’s interesting, I hadn’t thought of it that way. Now I suppose I have some things to think about. Thank you for the insight.
To everyone else, (if anyone else noticed!), please forgive the lapse of judgment. I didn’t mean to muddy the waters. You might not know this about me, but I have a particularly dim view of our media. My last post was an ill-considered swipe at my profession and had no place in this thread.
It now looks like the poor woman is dead. Her terror was palpable. Her treatment was brutal. I have no personal belief in a place called Hell, but I am certain that these bad men will pay for what they have done to Margaret Hassan.
Agreed. That’s exactly what I believed the OP to be about in the first place: the tragic and brutal killing of someone who had devoted her time in this world to helping others.
I stand with you. I believe that your OP was sincere and heartfelt. To their credit, Mehitabel, ivylass, Tranquilis, lieu and vivalostwages also accepted the OP in the spirit it was given. If you had not started the thread, I certainly would have.
To duffer and** Liberal **:
As always, you tried hard to inject a calm, rational, adult voice into the discussion. For that I envy you.
In spite of my own unhappy experience here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286772, I am appalled by the way this thread degenerated into a “poop-on-Ryan_Liam” forum. This is the BBQ Pit at its worst - *Ad hominem * attacks and name-calling without any attempt to separate the message from the messenger. It is immature and literally adolescent. This board strongly resembles a particularly brutal junior high school in which local bullies like Gawd, World Eater, **Diogenes the Cynic ** and the rest of the *corps de douches * maintain their rank in the caste system by teaming up against those who are not so popular.
My question is: What the fuck do they hope to prove by this? That they’re unspeakable bastards who’ll kill innocent people for no reason? Okay, point made, now tell me why that means we should pull out of your country? Seems to me that’s a good argument for us to stay there, if for no other reason than to keep you so occupied with killing innocent people in your own country that you don’t have time to sneak across the borders into someone else’s country.
I can understand them going after Haliburton employees, members of the military, and the media, but kidnapping and executing someone who has spent the past 30 years working for a universally praised humanitarian organization just boggles my mind. I wonder how many Iraqis owe their life to that woman?
It’s bad enough that innocent people die during war time, but to deliberately seek out and execute someone who know who is trying to make the world a better place, someone who is married to one of your fellow countrymen is beyond the pale.
You only need an 8th grade education and a conscience to have a better plan. I am nothing special.
Are you serious? The bombing of a friendly embassy, the shooting of Canadian soldiers, the clipping an Italian gondola cable, the kidnapping and rape of a Japanese girl, and the running over of a Korean child. I remember the ‘collateral’ damage. Fuck, I was in those countries while they were protesting, and I still try to remember that our troops are just kids themselves, and support them.
Not everyone here has a hatred of the military. Some of us don’t like the Administration. There is a difference. I can easily justify the difference. The Administration started a preemptive war based on wrong or false premises. The alternative would be that they did it by lying, just to have a war. They then sent in the military with little to no time to prepare and almost no planning. They sent them with inadequate equipment and supplies. They didn’t send enough, because of the “smaller leaner faster” doctrine. They had no plan for keeping control. They have no exit plan. Instead of 'fessing up, they kept changing the alibi. There is a possibility that given three chances to get the leader and his cronies, the Administration decided not to act. If true, then even more blame should be heaped upon the Administration (not the soldiers).
I hope it gets them lynched. Or a Bolivian neck tie. Or worse.
It is the fault of the psychos who did it. They are Cowards who did it because it is easier and safer for them than actually having to fight someone who fights back. They have a record of only going after unarmed noncombatant civilians. Anyone who can justify what they did is scum.
An American soldier going overboard and shooting a wounded prisoner means America is evil, all of our troops are evil, the president is evil, on and on. No excuse because we all know America is trying to rule the Arab world and wants their oil.
Terrorists kidnapping, torturing and murdering people should be seen in a different light because we invaded their country. Since America invaded Iraq, it’s excusable to do all sorts of fucked-up things to people. One stupid fuck here is even trying to pin the blame on US troops for getting too close. With that reasoning, America is responsible for the Jews killed when our troops got too close to the concentration camps. If our forces had only known to stay away. Those pesky Germans just wanted the Allies out of their country.
To summarize, terrorists fly planes into buildings and behead people but we need to get beyond that and realize that it’s all really our fault because we are all bad. Islam is all about peace. Unless you make a film which talks bad about it or write a book badmouthing the Koran, then you’re fucked.
Go watch the video on this link and then explain to me how I’m supposed to give a fuck about their cause.
Oh well, fuck me, I’m flame bait. Shit, I’ll have to live with it.
