Marital Rant (LONG)

The BBQ Pit
41

I am in no way trying to justify your husband’s behavior here, which I consider thuggish and childish at best and borderline abusive at worst. Throwing things and screaming obscenities is never acceptable behavior, regardless of the circumstance. Also, let me be clear that I’m not trying to blame you for this incident, but…

Judging this only by what you wrote, if it were me you were talking to, I’d be annoyed too (again I’m NOT saying his reaction was appropriate.)

Look at your first sentence:

sounds pretty inflammatory. It sounds like you’re accusing your husband of approving of this. If it were me, I would have gotten angry by the “and you think that’s ok?” line, which sound like ‘fighing words’ to me.

Also:

Why should only your husband be doing this? Again, it would sound a lot less…um…hostile?..confrontational?..to me if it was “WE should…” And if you don’t like the way he’s handling the situation, why not offer to take care of it yourself?

And

Again, it sounds like you think your husband doesn’t understand that the video guy’s screwing the two of you and then you dump the problem on your husband.

I agree with your husband’s comment (although NOT his reaction to it) that this isn’t an effective way to communicate. (Besides, for me, this is the last thing I’d want to think about when eating what sounds like a really nice dinner.)

I think that your later post about your husband getting counselling (especially for anger management) is a great idea, but I’d also suggest that in addition to that, perhaps the two of you also get some marraige conselling and you both learn to communicate better with each other.

Fenris

42

I can’t believe that you think it is ok for him to treat you like that. Why take such nonsense?

Granted, I’ve never been in a situation like that, but I think that I would have been out that door before the fajitas hit the floor. Not for good, but just so that he knows how you feel about what he’s done. How can he know what an ass he is if you don’t say so, either with words or actions? You can’t change him, but you can let him know that what he does is changing you.

43

Hmmm … interesting to see what happens to a moment taken out of time and examined.

I am the husband in question and it was interesting to read the posts here and see what people had to say.

I am not going to write a big explanation or try to justify anything, I am just posting to let you all know that there is more to a situation then what can be gleaned from looking at a snapshot of it.

Several posters had some interesting insights and some even hit on some truths.

I wish you all the best of luck at instructing my wife how to proceed with her life but one bit of advice - get all the facts first.

MDE

44

Lazarus7 said:

“Several posters had some interesting insights and some even hit on some truths.”

It might benefit your wife, if nobody else, to know what these truths are so you can resolve whatever issues need to be faced.

45

I wonder if these “facts” would justify swearing at your wife, calling her stupid, and throwing things around the house? Unless one of the facts was that she was lying, I’d say that they would be irrelevant, certainly no excuse for such behavior.

46

The only way that we can get all the facts, or hear both sides is if you tell us your point of view on the incident in question.

We are more than willing to listen to you too, this is not a one-sided message board.

Please join in, it would be interesting to hear/see your views also.

47

Hi gang … I was trying to post earlier today but kept getting errors. Interesting that now my huband (Lazarus) has shown himself and shared his comments (such as they are).

I won’t comment on what he had to say, as that is a discussion best kept between he and I. I will however give you all the latest update.

Several of you suggested that if I didn’t like the way my husband was handling the situation, I should do it myself. This was actually my motivation for finding out what he had done. I didn’t want to start calling Jerald without finding out what had already been exchanged between them. Since that night, I indeed called Jerald, used words like “ridiculous” “misunderstanding” “silly” and “seven months later” … and I now have a wedding video. Assertiveness wins out again!

Many of you have commented that he is going to become physically abusive before too long. I worry about this also. That’s why I feel I have to make it a condition of our continued relationship that he gets counselling. In our present life situation, counselling is totally out of the question … we have NO disposable income and so cannot afford it. However, I think that once he gets that fancy high-paying job in the big city, there will be no more excuses. I can wait till then.

There is a lot of good advice on here, and please know that I appreciate ALL of the feedback, if only so that I know people care. It is also true, though, that you don’t know all the facts. And that is of course not your fault … it is just the nature of message boards.

That said, I feel I have to point out that there are a lot of very strong (and, I feel, inaccurate) terms used here. My husband is not like this “constantly”. I don’t live in constant fear of him or feel that I need to run to a shelter or anywhere else. He doesn’t do this kind of thing every night. Most of the time, as I said, he is a very warm and wonderful man, caring and protecting and loyal and fun. But every once in a while … for lack of a better word … the monster comes out.

I was VERY interested in what OpalCat had to say, and I wonder if medication is the answer here. It’s nice to hear the other side of the story, thank you so much. As for the many comments about the verbal abuse, yes it does SUCK! I have tried to talk to him about it (last night in fact). I told him that I don’t even think he realizes that he is hurting me (exactly what ChrisCTP said). He said, “Well, guess what, I am moving out in a month, there’s your solution.”

And in a way, it is. I have no doubt that this year of long-distance is going to be really really hard for both of us. As I’ve said, 90% of the time we have a very loving and wonderful relationship, which makes it easy to forget about the other 10%. But maybe in the next few months as we are apart we will learn that precious communication, and learn to appreciate each other again. And, if all else fails, it will be really easy to leave him when he’s already gone.

Thanks again for everyone’s positive thoughts.

48

Pssst! Hey! Yeah, you, Lazarus. I wanna tell you something. Naw, closer . . . Ready?

If you want us to get all the facts, fucknuts, you’d better provide some.

As it is, she might have been acting snippy, you might have a shitty life, but from her side of the story the only possible description for your actions is spousal abuse.

So, justify yourself, buddy. You’ve got a forum for it right here.

49

I think this bears repeating. This board is ABOUT listening to both sides (if possible) and making RATIONAL decisions.

Lazarus, if you feel there are facts that have not been presented, please present them. I think I speak for the majority of posters here when I say that we’re open-minded people here, and we’re willing to consider what you have to say. The way you have presented yourself so far, though, comes off pretty poorly.

BTW, sorry to hear about your mum. I know it’s not much comfort in such a hard time, but I want to express my sympathy.

50

Brunetter:

Free advice:

As usual, it sounds like this is not the entire story. I’m fairly sure that if you were bugging me about some overdue photos I would be highly unlikely to toss around perfectly grubbable vittles. Sounds like there are other pressures on the relationship. Money is often a factor. It doesn’t have to be anybody’s fault. I was usually a rambling wreck during finals week. I can’t imagine what a DMZ I would be if my mother was gravely ill. Combined, you wouldn’t want to share a zip code with me. Of course, that is no excuse for decorating with dinner.

You have heard much good advice regarding domestic violence. Do yourself a favor and do a search on domestic violence, warning signs of. Studies of abusive men find that the common thread is contempt for their partners and often themselves. But if this is very out of character I wouldn’t run screaming for the hills just yet.

Like some other posters, I was wondering why YOU didn’t go to war with the photographer yourself. From your description, you were pushing pretty hard on something your hubby was stuck on. I have found that kind of pressure usually causes problems and rarely produces the intended result. Do you spend a lot of time trying to get your man to do things? However important or justified it may be, he might be getting real goddam tired of it. How many times during an average day do you ask him to do something? Or remind him of things he should be doing, even things he agrees he should be doing? You might see if there is some other way to handle it. I regretfully ended a relationship over this kind of thing once. But then I didn’t jettison a rack of ribs; I just talked to her.

Very, very occasionally. Once in a great while I get so mad I have to go kick the old sawhorse around. It’s not something I’m proud of. I have never hit a woman (thank the big guy in the sky), but I’ve put that sawhorse back together once or twice. A bad temper is not a demon he is cursed with; that is bullshit. There are ways to handle it that do not involve intimidation.

And maybe it’s just me, but I like to do my laundry in private. If I was Lazarus I would talk to my wife and not crack open my personal life on the Web.

51

Exactly …

regardless of this being a two sided message board, as many people have said, I have no real desire to air my laundry here which is why you will not hear my version of things.

For whatever it is worth, the replies to my wife’s rant have been very amusing … I got a good chuckle out of most of them.

I think it is great that you all support her and feel that your opinion is called for (this is the forum for that, I imagine). I know she appreciates it all and feels loved, which is good.

MDE

52

So what was your point in posting, then? Just to snipe at your wife? Or us?

Christ in a '74 Impala, pally, talk to her instead of telling us about how you’re not going to tell us anything.

Getting tetchy here won’t help the lines of communication at the ol’ Laz/Brunetter household any. I understand that you feel annoyed and want to defend yourself, but the only way to help things is to actually talk to her instead of taking little “she’s not telling you everything” potshots.

-andros-

53

Lazarus -

Glad you’re fucking amused. You know, I bet there’s no “other side” to the story. None besides “She made me do it.” What, she was mean? She pushed you too far? If she was better, you wouldn’t act that way? I’ve heard ALL the fucking excuses. Wanna try to come up with a new one? You fucking son of a bitch. All you want is control. And damn straight she feels loved here, since she sure as HELL doesn’t get it from you.

54

Oh! … Falcon! … your clever and witty barbs have pierced me right to the heart! How can I go on knowing that you have such a deep and profound understanding of the depths of my soul … woe is me!

55

I spent 24 years almost to the day trying to change my (now ex) husband into a semi-normal human being. He intimidated and abused me over the years and when it finally got to the point where I no longer sat immobile, frightened and confused and spoke up for myself the intimidating behavior (throwing things, screaming, cursing, name-calling) escalated to beatings on an almost daily basis.

You need to find counseling for YOURself. He may or may not change over time, he may be under great stress, he may this or that, but it is you who needs to worry about yourself. Get counseling, find the best way to end this relationship safely and find out what it is inside you that makes you so willing to find excuses for his behavior or you will make the same mistake again.

For those of you who feel I am being too harsh in my judgment, pick up your newspaper today and see if you can avoid finding even one story of a woman or family terrorized by a man who has decided that he can and will use any method he sees fit to make sure his wife/GF/SO/EX does what he wants her to do.

For those of you who will say, “Damn, how stupid were you to stay 24 years?”, my response is, pretty damned stupid, but we all do the best we can in life…

56

I didn’t think this board would be such a refuge of snap judgement. A few (Milossarian and SpeakEasy come to mind) tried to point this out but as is often the case a few level heads tend to get run over in a mob mentality.

Perhaps the people advocating Brunetter to dump this guy have perfect relationships in which you and your SO are of one mind perfectly melded in harmony. You simply cannot imagine anything but peace and goodwill and have zero tolerance for anyone who steps outside those bounds.

On the flip-side we have the ones who have been thoroughly dumped on (to put it mildly). Here’s a chance to vent some anger at yet another abused woman and yet another confirmation of the slime men really are.

As is often the case however the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. People get pissed off, they do and say stupid things. The first response should NOT be to line them up and have them shot.

My wife and I have gotten into some doozy fights in the past. I threw a glass and smashed it in the sink on one occasion. Without any prompting from others I felt foolish and bad all on my own. It was stupid and childish. According to the majority of this board my wife should have run away immediately and dump me. She wasn’t thrilled with my behavior but she didn’t leave me either.

In other fights the verbal assaults can get quite heated. In this case my wife is easily responsible for 90% of vicious statements intended to hurt (I’m really not fudging that stat either). Being called stupid has frequently been levelled at me by my wife and is one of the more mild epithets she’s thrown my way. I guess I should run out on my wife in this case since I’m being mentally abused.

(For the record NEVER has anyone been physically hurt in the LEAST by the other one.)

Our marriage is a work in progress. In the end it takes two to tango. Neither my wife nor myself are saints and allow for faults in the other person. We both did/do plenty to piss the pther one off.

That does not mean throwing things and name calling is ok with us either. It most certainly isn’t but we work through it and I feel our marriage is stronger than it was two days after our honeymoon (and I believe my wife feels the same way…she just about said as much a few days ago). It took marriage counseling but mostly it took a committment to each other to try and make it work. It’s been a long time since we’ve had anything approaching a rough fight.

This throwaway mentality is crap. “My SO isn’t perfect…I’m dumping him/her for better!” That’s one of the reasons I had three fathers and was adopted twice.

Brunetter seems like a reasonably intelligent woman. Should she be pissed off? You betcha. Should she keep a close eye on her husband’s behavior for awhile to see if this is an abberration or will be a continuing theme? Absolutely. Should she run now while she can and leave her husband based on what we’ve learned here? No way. If her husband continues to throw things (or worse) should she leave? Almost definitely yes.

It seems to me Brunetter has come to these conclusions on her own (thank god). I shudder to think at what an impressionable woman may have done if she followed the advice of this board.

Below is some text copied from Snopes discussing an e-mail supposedly sent by some callous ass to a woman he had recently met. The e-mail made its worldwide rounds and was met with indignation from all quarters. I realize that the e-mail in question and this thread is not comparing apples to apples but I think Snopes did an excellent job in showing how careful people should be with their advice/opinions when they have little information. (In the case of this e-mail some 100% innocent bystanders also named Brian Winters were harassed.)

*Source: http://www.snopes.com/spoons/faxlore/winter.htm *

57

If you and your wife want to put up with throwing things at one another and calling one another stupid, that’s fine. But don’t for a moment think that everyone should put up with that kind of shit just because you do. It IS abuse, whether or not you choose to rationalize it away to nothing.
And it doesn’t have to be like that. Sometimes it’s better to be alone than it is to put your all into a relationship that only ends up tearing your soul apart. Having experienced both ends of the spectrum, I only hope that Brunetter can find happiness somehow. And pardon me for being cynical, but I don’t think it’s going to be with Lazarus. I’ve seen that type too many times to believe that they’ll change, because they don’t even think they should.

58

Thank you for proving my point, you son of a bitch.

59

It’s interesting to see the dividing line in these posts between what people call abuse.

Brunetter, ultimately you are the only person that can decide what is right for you. We can only propose courses of action, give advice, and feel concern. You and Lazarus were there and we were not. I am not advocating that you bail on a marriage. To a certain degree, I agree that many people do not give marriage a real chance, but bail at the first sign of problems. But when I think of problems, I think of things like you being mad at your husband for not paying you enough attention while he is so concerned about his mother, or leaving because you can’t agree on how to spend money. These are trifles and aren’t a reason to get a divorce. Only you can decide whether Lazarus was abusing you. Did you feel threatened? Were you worried about your safety? Do you feel that he will treat you in a similar manner in the future either physically or verbally? If you do, then maybe you should both step back and decide if this is the life you want. Whatever you decide, keep us informed if possible. We are concerned and feel that there is reason for it.

For all of those out there who were abused {{{{hugs}}}}
I know that it can’t negate what was/is being done to you, but I hope that knowing that others care and are willing to support you will/does help.

60

Hon, you are obviously not a dimbulb. You know what is going on in this marriage, and you know if your husband is abusing you, verbally or otherwise. Only you can make the call, but I have to say that if you are not of the opinion that your husband is abusing you, posting your frustrations on this board was NOT the way to make a bridge to better communication. Please think about this, and decide whether you should have invited the kind of posts you have gotten concerning your marriage, and broken trust with your husband. If you do NOT feel you are being abused, then you have broken trust with your husband.

If you DO feel you are being abused, by all means follow all of the excellent advice that you have received on that issue. If you do NOT feel you are being abused, (and I have to say that your later posts seem to indicate this) and in fact are participating in whatever is going on, then I think you and your marriage would be better served by talking to your husband about your concerns instead of sharing a marital spat with 7000 registered people, most of whom have issues of their own. Valid issues, to be sure. Most of us have them. And many of them concern spousal abuse-abhorrent as it is.

Anyway, I care about you, and I wish to help. If this didn’t, I am sorry. Whatever is the true situation, you have my support and my prayers.

Scotti