Tell her to hit the bricks. Or get a mistress. There’s absolutely nothing unethical about that. It’s very European.
There’s absolutely nothing unethical about that. It’s very European.
And we all know that if the Europeans do it, it MUST be ethical …
ok, my 2 cents:
she really could be sick and not know it. when i started taking any sort of SSRI’s, i lost all interest in sex. and i sure as hell didn’t want to. i love sex.
from the OP:
this leads me to beleive that she may not be fond of the situation either. tell her other women have this happen, and to go to a doctor and see if something’s wrong, that can be fixed, it’s not her fault.
and about not being able to leave a marriage just because you want to, that is what sucks about marriage. why do it? i just don’t get it. (i am engaged to my children’s father, for quite some time now 
) the whole marriage contract that everyone enters into was drawn up centuries ago when the life expectancy was much lower. it shouldn’t take a lawyer to change your mind.
I say we don’t focus on her at all, but only on Thrasymachus.
Do you feel you’ve honestly tried to fix this? Do you feel you’ve been open and willing to investigate any causes and to deal with what comes? And lastly, are you getting what you need from the relationship?
If the answers are yes, yes and no, then it’s time for you to pack your bags and move on.
I still say that you sue her over something. There’s an opportunity cost for you of remaining married to this charlatan and missing out on all the sex you could have had with other women.
She signed a contract with you and she violated its letter and its spirit. There is definitely some kind of fraud or emotionally distress or some such thing here. Talk to a lawyer, he will know what to do. Take her for all she’s worth.
According to the OP, she stopped having sex within days of the wedding, she doesn’t even like hugging and kissing, this has gone on for year, he has tried and tried to talk about at this point she won’t even do that. None of this is remarkable or raises any red flags, so I’m inclined (another woman) to believe the OP is telling the truth as he sees it.
Let’s consider another story one hears from time to time: He has a good job, he works enthusiastically. Shortly after the wedding, he quits. When she questions him, he says, “yeah, it’s kind of surprising to me, too. That’s the way the ball bounces.” After a few years, he won’t even talk about why he won’t work.
If a woman posted a message like that, I’m afraid very few people would try to cook up reasons why it’s HER fault.
Refusing to have sex with someone for years on end is cruel.
Remember, she doesn’t even seem to be having sex with him for his sake. It’s not like she’s on med and doesn’t enjoy it, or is tired and doesn’t enjoy. She is running the show, for reasons of her own.
The parts that sent the clear warning signals to me were:
and
and
That’s very sad and unfortunate, and I’ve been there before with the Ex SO (except, of course, there was no “marriage” that the law recognized, which meant the break up was very legally simple). There’s been a lot of good advice in this thread, and the only thing I will put in an extra prop for is - don’t live in a sexless marriage or relationship if you need it and the partner is unresponsive. In my (admittedly limited) experience, NOTHING builds slow, simmering, potentially violent hatred like extreme sexual frustration in a married couple, save for a partner cheating on the other. It will break you, and feel like it’s prematurely aged you a few decades. In time (if not already) you may start to feel worthless, ugly, useless, and start to have doubts about your need for existence on the planet.
If she absolutely won’t seek help, and you’ve tried repeatedly and in all the ways you know how to get her to help, then you must leave. See a lawyer and do it. Every divorced friend I know of told me how much better they felt after their first session with their lawyer - when they actually made the decision and laid it all out for a professional to see. When the uncertainty is removed. However, note that in some States with “no fault” divorce (like Kansas), her lack of willingness to have sex is going to have no impact on the division of assets - it will still be right down the middle, in general.
apricot syrup how old are you? Emotionally, not physically. Are you or have you ever been married? Involved in a long-term relationship? Any relationship at all? You seem to be as qualified to give relationship advice as I am to perform brain surgery—and I’m not at all qualified to perform brain surgery. You strike me as the classic “I’ll hold your coats while the two of you fight” kind of person.
Why?
There’s not been a real indication that the lack of sex is due to malicious purposes. There doesn’t have to be any malicious purpose at all, in fact. It’s an unfortunate and sad thing, and he shouldn’t stay in if there is no hope of improvement in the situation, but there’s also no need to be vindictive about it either.
(Half-assed speculation time)
I’ve known two failed marriages where the clear warning signs occurred almost immediately after the wedding. In one case, the woman felt like the marriage was simply “the apex of her life”, and that everything went downhill from there. She had an elaborate wedding - more than $20,000 worth, with 300 guests, a “releasing of doves” at the end of the ceremony, etc. She planned and planned and obsessed over the wedding for more than 15 months, and when it was over, she felt…well, like she had peaked, and that the remaining 50-70 years of her life were little more than running out the clock until death and oblivion. Thankfully, that marriage only lasted 12 months - the final straw was her becoming an Jehovah’s Witness.
The second time was the male’s fault - he had actually lost interest in the woman sometime during the very long time between proposal and wedding (she wanted a “couple of years” to “have time to prepare”). Their wedding was also an elaborate affair, not quite $40,000, but maybe. They separated 7 months or so later, divorced in two years. He told a FOAF that “he stopped loving her with a year left before the wedding, but that so much was in motion that he felt helpless and like he couldn’t stop it”.
So, there are sometimes purely emotional reasons why things seem to go south right after a wedding.
(Aside - why does it often seem like there is an inverse proportionality at play between the cost and planning of a wedding and the success of the marriage? Or is it just that schadenfreude calls attention to the expensive failures?)
I have to second (or third) the medical checkup. There could be a number of physical reasons for this. I had problems myself (before I was married). I didn’t feel much like kissing or touching either, because I was always afraid that that would lead to sex and I just had no libido at all. I was hypothyroid, and didn’t know it, and I was on birth control pills and I had another undermedicated endocrine problem, and my messed-up hormones were seriously screwing me up. I thought it was a psychological thing–I had no idea it was all physical–and it lasted a long time–at least a year. Once I got the hormonal situation taken care of, everything went back to normal.
So, before divorce, or cheating on her, or any of the stupid suggestions made by apricot syrup, I suggest you try to get her to an endocrinologist, or at least get her to talk to her GYN. My hormonal problems came on without warning, and I went from healthy libido to absolute nothing in no time. She might be more willing to see someone if she thinks the problem might be physical rather than psycological, too.
You may very well be joking, in which case I’ll probably be rewarded with a host of Whoosh! posts, but that’s the stupidest thing I’ve read this week, so far. But it’s only Monday, someone might beat you before the week is through.
Heh… I was wondering about that one too. SnoopyFan’s follow-up post was also quite amusing in its way. 
My first marriage evolved into an essentially sexless relationship over a period of years, and eventually ended in divorce. In retrospect, I honestly believe that there was (and still is) something mentally wrong with my ex-wife.
I cannot express how frustrating such a marriage can be. At the time, I didn’t realize how much I was suppressing – emotionally, physically, mentally – and how much damage that was doing to me. (And to those who will wonder – yes, I bathed regularly, brushed my teeth, and took care of myself. In fact, I left the marriage in better physical shape than when I entered it.)
Thank God I met Aries28. She has shown me what a true marriage partnership between two adults should be.
Divorce should always be the last option, and I don’t recommend it lightly. I don’t know, from what we’re told in the OP, that divorce is needed here. But the relationship being shared here is not healthy.
I hope that’s true–we eloped to Vegas on less than 2 thousand bucks.
With regard to the OP, I have a couple of things to say (well, actually, just a couple of previously-stated ideas to support):
-
I’ve never been to any sort of counseling myself, but my understanding of marital counseling (via a couple of friends who swear by therapy) is that its purpose is not (necessarily) to save the marriage, but to help each partner understand what’s best for him/her (even if that means that the marriage goes bust). I don’t know if that’s true or not, but in that spirit, you could go to counseling yourself, without your wife . . .
-
A big Amen and Hallelujah to the notion that there may be a physical cause for this, whether it be exhaustion, an adverse reaction to her birth control, or some as-yet-undiagnosed problem.
-
Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you that the slightest amount of stress kills my libido faster than a car winshield kills an errant bug on the freeway. Unfortunately, I have dated a couple of guys who craved sex more during times of stress (which I can understand, logically (sex being a stress reliever and all), but it’s SO not the way I’m wired), which made for a lot of relationship strife during, say, finals week in college, when my (then) fella was constantly grabbing and touching and kissing and stuff, and I, in my “Don’t Touch Me!” stress-mode, was fighting an overwhelming urge to blow his head off with a bazooka just to get him to leave me the hell alone.
And of course, as someone else mentioned, this kind of situation can cause a snowball effect, whereby even when “the mood” returns, there’s now resentment on both sides: the person who wanted it is now feeling all rejected, and the person who didn’t want it is now feeling all pressured.
- Also, in that Daddy Times Two thread, someone mentioned that the approach is key. If you (well, not YOU, but you know what I mean) are hoping to warm me up to the idea when I’m not particularly “in the mood” (and would just as soon watch an episode of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”), then the horn-dog (or, as someone put it, “Nookie Time!”) approach DOES NOT WORK. On the other hand, if I’m feelin’ rather lusty myself, then nah, I don’t need to feel like you want to do this to show how much you love me–just BRING IT ON!
So my point is that it could be that each of you is failing to read the other’s signals in terms of:
a) When sex is A Good Idea/A Bad Idea, and
b) What kind of approach will be most effective.
But that’s just me.
Thrasymachus, IMO a marriage without communication isn’t much of a marriage. You sound very unhappy, and I can understand why. I think the worst part about it from your point of view, is that she won’t talk about it or try to fix it.
I’m going to be charitable and assume it is not an intentional denial of sex with you (thought I agree, the timing doesn’t help). The fact that she isn’t interested in talking about it or trying to find a compromise says more to me than the fact that the sex has stopped. She is showing very little love or respect for you, when she refuses to attempt to find a compromise with you.
I would be very very honest with her. Sit her down and explain that this lack of love and respect in her attitude of refusing to try to work out issues is making you worried that the marriage is crumbling. Give it one last ‘every thing I can muster’ attempt to try and sort this out. Not the ‘lack of sex’ thing, that will come later, but the ‘not prepared to communicate and attempt to compromise’ thing. That’s the part that will kill your marriage much faster than no sex, IMO.
Good luck. I wish you strength to deal with this in a way that will make you happiest, and hopefully your wife, too.
My 2 cents:
If there aren’t any kids, just get out.
People don’t really change.
Otherwise, consider taking a lover. Deep down, your wife probably won’t mind as long as you don’t flaunt it.
The fact that she isn’t interested in talking about it or trying to find a compromise says more to me than the fact that the sex has stopped. She is showing very little love or respect for you, when she refuses to attempt to find a compromise with you.
This could definitely be the case.
Or, it could be that she just doesn’t realize how important sex is to him. I had no clue as to how significant sex was to men until I read “His Needs, Her Needs” by Willard Harley. (This book is written by a marriage counselor and details the top 5 needs of men/women in a marriage: #1 being sex for men (generally) and #1 being conversation for women, in general.) Once I learned that the need for sex for my husband was like my need to talk, it showed me that 1. he’s not just a horny little bastard and 2. how would I feel if he refused to talk to me for, say, 2 weeks?
In short, Mrs. Thrasymachus just may not realize that sex is pretty much the end-all-be-all thing for Thrasymachus. It’s not that he’s a horny bastard, he’s simply wired to need sex. He can’t help wanting it any more than a woman (in general) can help wanting to talk all the time.
Women tend to ignore/downplay their husband’s sexual needs not out of spite, IMHO, but out of ignorance. Sex isn’t really important in many women’s books so they assume that their husband feels the same way.
Manda, your advice is normally fairly level headed, but I have to admit that if you are truly serious this attitude toward marriage stuns me, and IMO borders on being morally reprehensible. A husband with three kids walks into the kitchen, suitcase in hand, and tells the wife it’s not working out cause she’s gotten pudgy and he doesn’t find her attractive anymore etc. Sorry, s’long, his lawyer will be in touch, have a nice life.
God forbid we should be judgmental about his actions or decision because he was “up front and honest about the fact” of why he is leaving and thus “it is all totally legitimate”. … Legitimate? He * damn well* owes her a justification for abandoning a marriage commitment beyond the insanely puerile reasoning you seem more than willing to accept, that could essentially amount to “I felt like it that morning. I couldn’t take that saggy ass one more day.”
Being a responsible moral actor in a complex society sometimes involves making moral judgments about behavior. This kryptonite like aversion you seem to have toward making moral judgments about childish or selfish behavior as long as the as the person doing the leaving is “honest” is simply baffling. Relationships may all ultimately be “at will” as you indicate, but that fact does not absolve people that employ, childish, self centered rationales in their decisions to disrupt and destroy families from blame or being (god forbid) “the bad guy”.
For me it started out as a side effect of medication. After getting on antidepressants, I just totally lost all desire for sex*…then I gained weight and felt about as sexy as a pile of cow dung, which made me want sex even less. Then he gained weight, which didn’t help. He also tends to wear clothes that smell and forgets to shave and use deoderant and stuff… So between all of that, I really don’t have sex these days. For example… I haven’t had sex in over a year. I know it bothers my husband, but it’s not like it means he never gets sex. He just doesn’t tend to get it with me. I’m glad, for example, that while he is in Germany on this business trip, that he is getting to spend time with a girl there that he is dating. I wish she lived in the US rather than Germany, so he could spend more time with her.
Prior to my lost libido, I would sometimes have a boyfriend, too.
Marriage isn’t just about sex. Sex isn’t a reason to get divorced (in and of itself). And for some people, like my husband and I, sex isn’t something that strictly has to absolutely be with only your spouse and no one else ever so help you god yadda yadda yadda. He loves me. I love him. Him enjoying a sexual relationship with someone else isn’t going to change either of those things. (I should also add that he isn’t promiscuous and I never have been, either. We just don’t think that a romantic relationship with someone else needs to be squashed in the bud if one should start to develop.)
Big major important factor: honesty. I’d have a real problem with it if my husband were sneaking around and “cheating” on me. This sort of thing only works if everyone involved is up front about everything.
This may or may not be an option for you, or appealing at all. I did feel, however, that it needed to be said. I am NOT in any way advocating “having an affair” or cheating on her.
*I am in the process of trying to find a medication and dosage that will work for me but bring my libido back. We’re trying Wellbutrin at the moment, though we’re still in the dosage-adjusting stage. I really would like to want sex again.
IMHO, and with all defference to the mods, doesn’t this thread belong in MPSIMS? I mean, saying marriage sucks is like saying the sun will rise tomorrow! WOW! BIG fucking revelation! :eek: