Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread

It’s ridiculous to suggest it DIDN’T occur when there is no screams for help. I don’t even know what point you’re trying to make. He couldn’t have put his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth at some point during the struggle because…?

I only watched the video embedded in the CBS article. Does Zimmerman mention what the hell he was doing with his hands and arms during all this?

No. He didn’t break it down second by second.

Zimmerman says that Martin put one hand over his mouth and one hand over his nose almost as soon as they were on the ground, saying “Shut the fuck up.”

So if Martin was trying to shut him up, why are none of the cries for help interrupted? None. The poor man was afraid he was about to lose consciousness - either from his head repeatedly being smashed into concrete, or from asphyxiation.

As an experiment, sit on top of someone and try to silence them while they cry for help. Record those cries and tell me if you fail to mute at least part of one.

As a further experiment, try smashing someone’s head into concrete “over and over” and let me know if they come away with only two small lacerations.

Seriously, this account doesn’t grab you by the collar, slap you around, and scream “HI! I HAVE BEEN ARTLESSLY EMBELLISHED BY SOMEONE OF BELOW-AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE!” in your face with breath that reeks of cheap corn chips? Are you the guy George was trying to kid with that “One dollar means one thousand” routine?

IIRC the bloody bag was used by the first PO on the scene in an attempt to deal with Martin’s chest wound.

CMC fnord!

Seriously. Some of these attempts at spin are equally as desperate as the paper towel tube defense. Except worse in that we don’t even have to wonder if the guy is a liar. We know he his.

What the hell are you talking about? You can hear gaps in screaming on the 911 call.

Wasn’t it a cop that took the picture with a cellphone, not a neighbor? The body was moved twice, once by Zimmerman when Trayvon was tackled after the shooting, not realizing how badly Trayvon was hurt, and by the police who tried to revive Trayvon.

Okay. That’s massively weird, but I can accept that.

Do we know where the first aid kit came from?

Most police carry a kit in their car.

It was a civilian who took the pic. It must have happened after the cops arrived.

The body could not have been moved that far unless they cops were intentionally trying to fuck up the crime scene. If Z was sucker punched and knocked to the ground within seconds of encountering M on the tee, he needs to explain how the kid wound up shot where he was.

Do cops routinely use pictures of their own first aid kits as official crime evidence?

They would take pictures of the crime scene. If it was used, it got photographed. What’s your point.

According to the first evidence dump, a police officer took the picture on his own cellphone, not any resident.

The first aid kit is listed as a piece of evidence. It’s not just a random something or another captured incidentally in a crime scene photo. This strikes me as unusual.

How much more do you need me to spell out?

why would it strike you as unusual? They would document everything that happened including what they did. If they tried to provide medical attention then it would be noted.

Ignoring the realities of Martin’s wound* :(,

In the absence of a proper dressing anything that keeps air from entering the pleural space and allowing the lung to collapse is way, way, better than nothing.

*if the bullet hadn’t also hit his heart, and given the extremely short time between the wound being inflicted and someone who knew what to do to treat it arriving on scene, it’s likely he wouldn’t have died.

I hope that takes the weird out of it.

CMC fnord!

How many other evidence lists have you examined?

My cousin got shot in the chest and had a gaping hole. It just missed the heart, but went through the lungs before hitting a bone and deflecting downward. The police officer used something to seal the hole. I don’t remember exactly what it was, but it wasn’t anything much different than a plastic bag. The officer said he needed to seal the hole and someone got something which worked. I don’t see anything strange about using a plastic bag. You go with what you’ve got on hand. Infections are treatable, later. Holes can’t wait.

How far exactly from the sidewalk did the body wind up?