Ms. Parker is busy calling vaccines a holocaust and using whale to as a source. I think the two brain cells she has left are off yelling at each other right now.
I am not normally in favor of censorship but the Mothering site ought to be shut down on public health menace grounds. They have an insane forum where people advocate not only in favor of home birthing but unassisted birthing! That’s right. Not even a lay midwife. Just you and your placenta and the world’s most painful experience in a room alone somewhere.
Because let’s recreate the good old days. You know. When women stood a good chance of dying in childbirth.
:rolleyes:
They periodically set up watches where the crazies sit around cheering as some poor woman follows their advice . . . and then set up mourning threads when the baby gets brain damaged or even dies as a result of this kind of thinking.
I was banned from the place after spending three days of my life arguing in favor of vaccines. I still get their newsletter and I still tell them off.
I just watched some blurb on tv that said that one in eight women in Sierra Leone die in childbirth - they travel miles in difficult terrain in labour to get to a birthing centre where they have better odds. Ask these women if they’d prefer a comfy ride to a comfy hospital where they are quite likely to have a safe birth and healthy baby.
These women are the same people who coin terms like birth rape. That’s right birth rape. Where a birthing plan that wasn’t followed is compared to being raped.
Meaning that the OB worried more about oh SAVING YOUR FUCKING LIFE AND MAKING SURE YOU HAD A HEALTHY CHILD than making sure that you had the most amazing and wonderful and fabulous birthing experience where rainbows came out of your ass and angels broke out in song above your head while all the world came to halt and saluted your glorious entrance into the halls of the Goddess of Earth Motherhood.
I definitely feel the need for a second book . . .
For myself, it’s just the flu shot - at my age, vaccinations are not much of an issue. For the dogs, I do not give leptospirosis, corona, lyme or kennel cough at all, and I boost the others far less frequently than most vets want it done - the only one done on a schedule is rabies because the city requires it every two years, which is ridiculous. The last shots the cat had was when she was a kitten and she is now over 13.
I would seriously hope that the book is far less emotional.
Um, so?
I’m quite sure you are aware that I have done next to zero research on human vaccinations, since it is a non-issue for me. For the animals, it was mostly the work of Dr Jean Dodds that convinced me that they were being over-vaccinated.
Yet for some bizarre reason she confidently writes:
And there we have it. **Curlcoat **feels free to offer an opinion on a subject she admits to knowing nothing about. I would also like to know what your problem is with the flu shot. At the very least the shot helps reduce symptoms.
This I understand and I usually skip the flu shot as well. However, you said it was the vaccinations you had as a kid that you wouldn’t approve. Which childhood vaccinations would you recommend skipping?
At the risk of calling down a firestorm upon my own head, I would be interested in hearing what the more-informed than I say about Gardasil. I am in favor of vaccinations in general, but that one makes me a little nervous. The trial was apparently only about 4 years, so I remember when it was pushed out, there was no data on how the subjects fared years after the vaccination. Since it protects against some strains of HPV, but not all, my fear was that would be a growing group of girls who said “Oh no, I don’t need a PAP regularly, I had the shot.” I heard a lot about how many women still die of cervical cancer, but my understanding of the disease is that IFyou regularly get PAPs, IF you develop cancerous cells, they WILL be caught before progressing to a potentially fatal stage. It seems one of the most preventable forms of cancer ever. I could be wrong, though.
I knew a woman who had cervical cancer, and she quite frankly confessed to me that she didn’t get checked regularly because she didn’t understand the risks after she got a bad PAP result. Her doctor downplayed it, or she underestimated the risk, and she went years without another test. She then “got around to it” and discovered she had full blown cancer. I had my own brush with it several years ago, and my doctor was diligent about follow ups. I have known quite a few women who had brushes with it, but all of the others dealt with it before it became an issue.
Someone mentioned Gardasil upthread, so I wondered if the vaccination advocates feel the same way about the HPV vaccine as they do about measles or tetanus or polio.
ETA: I would absolutely vaccinate my child against every OTHER disease my doctor suggested- this one just concerns me a bit.
This is why I said I hope the book had far less emotionalism in it that what you post here. There is nothing contradictory about those two statements because I don’t have kids, which you know. If I did have kids, then I’d research human vaccinations just as I did for the dogs and the cat. That is what “I personally would have a lot of trouble approving all of those shots if I had a kid” means - if I had a kid, I’d have trouble with all of those shots and would need to do a lot of research before time for vaccinations came.
I’m not sure why it would be any of your business, but I don’t have any “problem” with the flu shot, any more than I have a “problem” with any vaccination. I simply choose to not get it because of it’s low efficacy, I’m not in any at risk group, I haven’t had the flu in over 25 years, and I tend to have an allergic reaction.
No, not the ones I had as a kid - I only had three back then. What I would look at seriously if I had a kid now would be the sheer number they get, and how early they start. Auto-immune diseases have been traced back to over-vaccination in dogs, so since dogs and humans are both mammals, and there seem to be more auto-immune problems in today’s kids, I’d want to have a serious look at it. I would want to make an informed choice, as I did with my pets, rather than just be a sheeple.
Also, my husband’s experiences with the FDA also cause me to be, um, less than trusting of that organization?
Re. Gardasil: It sounds like some women are ignorant/misinformed about health risks even when there isn’t a vaccination involved, so I don’t see why you should say “don’t get vaccinated and definitely risk cancer” over “get vaccinated and maybe reduce your risk of cancer.”
I mean, some women apparently think that the Pill protects them against STDs, because there are disclaimers in ads warning against that. You just have to hope that the knowledge gets out there one way or another.
And yeah, if I were in that age range I’d get that vaccine. I get the influenza vaccine yearly, I got a Tdap diphtheria/pertussis (whooping cough - there have been multiple outbreaks of this over the past several years in the US)/tetanus booster two years ago and plan on continuing that every 10 years, I got the HepB series for work and will ask about the HepA series. I had chickenpox so I don’t need that but I will get the shingles vaccination as soon as a doctor will give it to me. Shingles freaking terrifies me.
The thing is about vaccinations, you’re not just protecting yourself, you’re also protecting everyone you meet. Immunocompromised people. Infants too young to receive vaccines. People who think vaccines are poison. People who got the vaccine but may be unlucky enough to have it not work. Herd immunity saves lives. Even something simple like whooping cough can kill infants, but adults who get it - and yes, that vaccine wears off - don’t get the ‘whoop’ intake of breath. They just think they have a cold. Then they cough in an elevator or near a baby in a store, and the baby ends up having to go to the ICU and fight for breath.
I don’t see the big deal about getting vaccinated, personally. You take in worse in your food and in alcohol and various nutritional supplements and herbal pills (not regulated by the FDA, by the way, unlike vaccines) and all kinds of things. Lots of people beat the everliving fuck out of their liver when they have a bad cold by taking a bunch of cold remedies that all have acetaminophen (and maybe an alcoholic drink or three to really work that liver over). People scoff about how you have to ‘challenge your immune system’ and thus brush off using hand sanitizer or following careful food temperature guidelines.
But suggest someone line up for an immune-system-‘challenging’ injection and people are all ‘holy shit, WTF?! Aren’t shots bad? Don’t they have bad stuff in them? Why do I need that?’
Mm, yeah. Do you avoid all medications then? The majority of these vaccinations are internationally-approved/used, last I checked. Do you distrust all nations’ medication approval processes?
What is it with your people and this black & white view of the world? I don’t get a flu shot, so that means I avoid all medications? I don’t like the way the FDA works, so I won’t take anything?
I know very little about how other nations approve medications. My only experience with that is I refuse to buy any in Tijuana.
The point they’re trying to make is that you have no good, logical, rational reason for rejecting the ones you do reject, so by the same lack of logic, there’s no reason for you to accept ANY medication. But anyone who still thinks there’s any point in trying to have a rational discussion with you hasn’t been paying attention.
Sure sounds like you have a “problem” with certain vaccines, you just don’t want to explain why (beyond a vague secondhand distrust of the Food and Drug Administration, and a sense that we don’t need to protect against all these goldarned pathogens, since no one cared when you were a tot).
And if you want to adopt a haughty tone that it’s no one’s business what you think about vaccines, then maybe you shouldn’t post your "curious’ feelings about them.
I hope there’s more to your suspicions than feelings, or as you call it, “emotionalism”, but I’m not seeing facts or logic.
Maybe you don’t remember them being regarded as problems when you were a kid, but I sure do. You just weren’t paying attention. Measles was indeed considered very serious. German measles less so, EXCEPT for causing mental retardation in utero, which was a good enough reason for vaccination. Mumps were well-known to cause sterility in men. I had chicken pox, mumps, and German measles as a kid, and would never subject my own kids to the misery I went through with them.
You mean diseases aren’t hazing rituals? Shut your mouth!
That really does seem to be an aspect of the anti-vaccine idiocy in some people: They went through it, so their kids need to, because, if their kids can just skip it, why, that might mean their suffering was meaningless pain that they only had to go through because they were born at the wrong time. And that just won’t do!
I’d have thought that the list of reasons why I don’t bother with the flu shot would fall under “good, logical, rational”. Huh. As for any other human vaccinations, I haven’t looked into them so I have no opinion on them at all at this time.
Actually, that was supposed to be a snotty tone since LavenderBlue can’t seem to write on this subject without being a complete bitch if anyone has any questions or comments she doesn’t like.
Well, as I said above I did think my decision to not get the flu shot was plenty logical. My suspicions regarding the vaccinations given to kids are based in discoveries made in dogs, but since I don’t have kids I haven’t taken the time to see if anyone at all has bothered to research the connection between many vaccinations all at once, and auto-immune disease. I mentioned this in the last vaccination thread and was immediately labeled anti-vax. Shrug. Not my problem.
Anything that has to do with adults has nothing to do with what I’ve posted.
I and all three of my brothers had the chicken pox and mumps, but none of us got the measles - the last two may have been vaccinated for it. None of us went thru any more “misery” than when we had colds or the flu. We had far more trouble with the strep virus than the pox or mumps. I have already said that we considered the “hard” measles to be a serious issue but we never knew anyone who had it.
If people don’t get the chicken pox and the mumps as kids these days, will they be protected as adults, when those two are much more serious? Or will they need to remember to get booster shots?
