Atheist. Atheist. Atheist.
Yargh.
About what? That it’s ok to make bigoted generalizations about Hinduism because I pointed out that the thread title offended me?
gobear, you are an ignorant and judgmental buffoon. Did you, or did you not, just state that BrightNshiny had no right to take offense with regard to her religion because of the existence of several sects and practices which you have no knowledge she even endorses?
You can stow your contorted logic. No one here has come up in favor of any violent or segregational practices. You point them out to me when they do.
It’s the same formula you use every time you decide to pull your broad-brush out of its holster. You don’t think; you have no tolerance for others.
Thinking about it longer, it does seem a little odd to bring up Shiva with no other real obvious reference. Sort of like assuming a white guy who commits a crime is Christian, and thus saying Jesus should shove his arms/legs/cross up the guy’s ass.
I’m sure the OP didn’t mean to offend Hindus or Indians with that, but maybe it was a poor choice of words.
guy, girl, if you are going to run around oppressing Dalits and strangling travelers, you don’t get to correct me.
Ah, you are correct. I was thinking of Kali.
Its must be playing all those Final Fantasies, where Shiva is the “female-looking” ice power summon.
In which case, May Kali stick her arms up… wouod be much more appropriate.
Ah, thank you for the correction.
Very likely I am, but that has nothing to do with the substance of my allegations.
Excuse me, but BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Caste discrimination may be agaisnt the law but if you’re going to tell me that it isn’t widespread throughout Indian society, especially in rural areas, I’m going to laugh right in your face. Whoops, I already did. perhaps you can take it up with Human Rights Watch, or maybe you need more cites.
Cite
Cite
Cite
Your branch of Hinduism doesn;t practice caste discrimination? Bully for you, but don’t lie that it doesn’t exist.
No, you illiterate fool. Go back and read my original post. I said I wasn’t impressed; I NEVER said he had no right to protest. I’d be grateful if you addressed my actual posts instead of making shit up.
And who cares if he endorses it or not? His personal endorsement has zip to do with the history of the religion. Modern Catholics today do not endorse in any way the horrors of the Inquisition; does that mean the Inquistion never happened?
Unlike you, Waverly, I know what I’m talking about. Why don’t you bow out of this argument, go to the library, and read some books before you continue to talk out of your ass?
Shiva actually has several forms, one of which is half-male/half-female. Vishnu also has a female form. Gender roles in Hinduism aren’t clear cut.
I’m not going to deny that the caste system is still practiced by many Hindus on a social level, and that caste-based violence still happens in India, but I refuse to be labeled as someone who discriminates on the basis of caste.
I didn’t deny it. I pointed out that it was illegal. There has been a massive effort on the part of both government and religious leaders to remove caste discrimination from Indian society.
All righty then, let’s clear some things up here.
First off, BrightNShiny, please try to see the humor of my thread’s title. I am an equal opportunity offender (as many of my supporters and detractors will testify to) when it comes to cherished icons. After all, sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers, no? Please refer to lieu’s last post for one of the more concise analyses of my motivations in composing the OP.
Next, while there was a curiously comprehensive degree of government participation in nailing this rut bag, I think some more cogent details are just now coming to light.
I’d be really interested to know the upshot of Hameed’s interrogation. Malaysia is currently the major hotbed of al Qaeda activity. Any stated desire for 50, count them, 50 shoulder launch anitaircraft missiles seems to be a good starting place for a significant international investigation. As bayonet 1976 mentioned, these sort of money conduits are a vital source of funding for international terrorism. Such feeder organizations must be choked off immediately.
Finally, when someone mentions to me that they’d like to shoot down passenger jet airliners, that’s my cue to telephone the FBI. I’m certain that the informers made specific mention of this as a sort of litmus test to determine the level of animosity Lakhani harbored towards America. His praise of bin Laden is quite enough for me, but it would seem he was willing to go one better. He has made his prison cot and must now be prepared to lie in it for a rather lengthy span of time.
No one put a gun to this man’s head and forced him to go about procuring these missiles. His financial difficulties have nothing to do with the matter. Plenty of people face personal bankruptcy without resorting to setting up illicit arms deals with international terrorists. While Lakhani may have been somewhat of a bit player, Abraham and Hameed are most certainly not. Amounts like $30,000 and $500,000 are sufficient to fund large scale terror operations. I wonder if it took much more than $500,000 to fund a major portion of the 9-11 atrocity.
All grandstanding of the current administration aside, in the absence of bringing down the actual terrorists themselves, getting their bagmen is a good alternative. I want these people dead, sooner than later and preferrably buried encased in concrete. This world is spending billions of dollars that are desperately needed for other assistance projects. There are schools that need to be built, AIDS drugs that should be distributed, starving children that require feeding. The funding for all of these crucial efforts is being drained off in order to thwart a handful of vicious thugs. These are criminals who have no problem killing innocent people in their attempts to establish repressive throwback theocracies that discriminate against women and other cultures. I want these all of these terrorist maggots dead, NOW.
I never said you discriminate. Hinduism does, your perfect record on caste notwithstanding.
Your cites aren’t necessary. I hope you didn’t strain yourself. BrightNshiny doesn’t agree with caste discrimination and neither does his branch. Once again, why can’t he object to comments about his diety, who in his belief system doesn’t require discrimination?
Actually, this is out of context if you want to play semantics games. What you said was, “Given that Hinduism embraces caste discrimination as virtue and its history of barbaric religious rituals like thuggee and suttee, not to mention the current abuses of power by fundamentalist Hindu political groups like Shiv Sena and the BJP, I’m not terribly impressed by Bright N’ Shiny’s protests.” Which sure looks to me like you are indicting BrightNshiny for things we don’t even know he believes in (and from what he’s said, quite the opposite.) Why tone it down now? If you are going to be a raving lunatic, you need more stamina.
Once again, I don’t see any denying of history here.
As soon as I see ‘Administrator’ under your name, I’ll heed your wishes that I not participate in a thread.
Yes I’m sure if it wasn’t for this pesky war on terror, all that money would be going to the children and to fight AIDS.
I’m almost certain!
Gobear,
You can be absolutely correct about the segregation and intoleration of Hindus of the past.
You can be dead accurate regarding how certain Hindus of today still practice discrimination based solely on what family a person is born into.
Your cites can be 100% truthful.
Your greivances completely sound
You’re still wrong.
Why are you still wrong? Because non of those things have fuck all to do with BrightnShiny’s argument. Nothing whatsoever.
You remain unimpressed with his complaints because other people, people whom he disagrees with morally, have done worse things.
This would be like me coming into one of your threads and saying “I remain unimpressed with your arguments regarding the need for gay marriages because, as everyone knows, Jeffery Dahmer ate dead men.”
Who’s toning down? I’m as hot and heavy as ever. I’m just being very clear about what I say, as opposed to the bullshit you make up and attribute to me. In any event, if knowing the history of Hinduism and having a general knowledge of Hindu theology (an extremely complex subject) means I’m a raving lunatic, guilty as charged
If Bright N’ Shiny rejects caste discrimination, good for him. But as I said, that does not exculpate Hinduism, the religion he claims as his, from its guilt.
but that’s not analogous to my argument. I’m not generalizing from one person’s behavior to the group.
If bright N’ Shiny doesn’t like one of his gods being dissed but glosses over the greater horrors visited on real people by his religion, then I submit that he is the morally blind one, not me.
The injuries sufffered by real people far outweigh disrespect to a being that doesn’t even exist.
Bright And Shiny-
What about ‘May Shiva appear in the form of a man with 4 arms and the head lion, tear out this man’s innards, drape them about his neck and dance joyfully’?
Tho IIRC we’d better have a skilled flute player on hand to calm him down afterwards.
But that doesn’t fly here. HE never brought up the “greater horrors.” You did.
I submit that every tragedy except The Greatest Tragedy To Befall Mankind Now, In The Past, And In The Future ™ has a greater tragedy than it. That doesn’t mean that one is illogical to complain about a lesser tragedy. That doesn’t mean a minor inconvenience is somehow not worthy of discussion.
If you’re going to say that bright N’ Shiny has no cause for complaint then you have to base your argument within the confines of that statement. You can’t just pull out other random topics and say “see? This is much worse!”
Not that ANY of this has to do with the OP, but, eh, whatever.
Let’s face it World Eater, our politicians aren’t going to be taking any pay cuts while this war on terror is carried out. The money has to come from somewhere. I don’t see coin banks on lunch counters collecting money for fighting terrorism. Why don’t you tell us which programs are going to suffer the most severe cutbacks? It’s pretty safe to bet that foreign education efforts and famine relief are easy targets, no matter how vital they are to stopping the roots of terrorism in the first place. Your cynicism is a bit misplaced.
I’m not glossing over anything. However, your blanket assertion that Hinduism “venerates” the caste system shows you have a superficial understanding of Hindu theology. It’s not so cut and dried as that.
Of course, by your reasoning, I should be able to use Jesus’s name in a derogatory fashion and then justify it by citing the Inquisition.