Right. For some reason that’s not listed in 'playoff record as starting QB; I thought that looked wrong. So he’s 9-7, and his teams had always won at least their first game until this past season.
Well I had this post written a few days (and a few pages ago), but decided not to post it. After reading 4 pages of fun, I thought maybe this alternate reasoning may add to the discussion (and get us off the Kordell Stewart train).
I think both teams are coming to the end of their QB play-span. Both teams are thinking ‘Maybe one more season with our guy then we need to make a change’ However there’s a problem. The last thing either team (ANY team) wants is: To go into the next off-season in any kind of major transition.
If there is a strike/lockout and possibly no training camp next year and the players need to come together at a moment’s notice to play football, they don’t want their teams to be getting comfortable with a new QB or scheme. So they make that transition now, and look for some kind of stability going into a very unstable situation next offseason.
Might as well throw Kolb into the fire this year and let him take charge of his team so that when they show up for the 2012 season they have some sort of comfort on the field. (and in the stands)
Not sure if the same logic hold as true for the Skins, but bottom line: They got a good QB for less money. Now they can choose.
And at least one of those HoF’ers never won a Super Bowl.
In case it isn’t clear, I don’t think Kordell and Donovan are comparable as to the quality of their play. McNabb wins hands down.
My point was that two very good franchises were held back because of their QB’s. It has nothing to do with them both being black, by the way… I know a lot of you think that is why I picked Stewart to compare to McNabb. A lot of this goes to the stubbornness of the coaches who refuse to see what most others see… that the QB that they’ve tied their fortunes to is not going to take them to the top of the mountain.
I’ll leave it at that, and won’t mention Stewart again, since comparing their stats and QB careers head-to-head is a waste of everyone’s time. I agree with you. I’d take McNabb over Stewart any day.
Ellis Dee, as for not taking Brady over Eli, are you serious? Wow. I’d take Sanchez for Eli straight up. Eli’s pouty puss demeanor and drooping shoulders body language annoy me enough that I couldn’t watch him. Yes he did win a Super Bowl, but can you at least admit that the Giants defense was the key to that win, not to mention a miracle catch on a 4th and whatever by a guy that’s not even in the league anymore were as big a part of that win than anything that Eli did on his own.
Hell, I can admit that Big Ben was not the star of the show in Super Bowl 40. He was along for the ride. However, the Steelers would have been hard pressed to win 43 without him.
As I recall, he was a big part of getting them there, though, and not just because of his tackling skills.
Yes, but Jim Kelly took his team to 4 SB’s in a row, a feat never seen before or since, and if it weren’t for “wide right”, who knows what would have happened to the Bills?
Kelly had a HOF career. McNabb? Not yet. If he gets in on his resume as it stands now, I’d be a bit surprised. But on that list, I believe Stabler isn’t the one in the Hall that should be.
My comparison of McNabb-Stewart had nothing to do with color. It had to do with the idea that their head coaches were both too stubborn to believe that they didn’t select the right guy to be their QB. If comparing him to Danny White makes you feel a bit more PC, by all means do so. But I don’t anyone who wouldn’t give McNabb a big sloppy kiss if he won a Super Bowl for the Eagles. He would be a sports icon in the city. And I firmly believe that if he was a white guy, people would still be glad he’s gone.
Who knows? Maybe being away from Philly will give him new life and energy and he’ll thrive under Shanahan in DC. I just don’t see it. But I’ll be happy to eat crow for you guys!
Ha! Re: Jim Kelly and Wide Right,
Does that no longer apply? We should look at other things about the games, the team, and the player, too?
It looks like “held back” means their QB wasn’t as good as Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. If so, I guess you’re right, but that’d be absurd. How many QBs have been better than McNabb since, say, 2001? There’s Manning and Brady and Favre. There’s Warner, who just retired. Who else? You could point to a few younger guys who are better than he is now but who haven’t sustained their success as long, or weren’t even in the league when the Eagles were making their run of NFC title game appearances.
I don’t know if I’d say Warner has consistently been better than McNabb since 2001. He was terrific in 2001, then piss-poor from 2002-2007.
Favre was great in two of the last three seasons, and very good from 2001-2004, but awful in '05 and '06.
You have to look at everything, including the era in which they played, the offense they were running, etc, etc. I don’t believe McNabb functions well under pressure. You disagree. That’s fine with me.
Are you saying if McNabb retired instead of going to the Redskins he’s an automatic hall of famer?
I don’t agree. But I don’t vote, either.
I don’t think Namath should be in the HoF, but he did so many things beyond his stats that I can see the argument for it. But if you look at his stats by themselves and don’t take the AFL-NFL issues, or winning SB III, he wouldn’t be in the HoF. I would say that in my opinion, if the Jets didn’t win SB III, Namath isn’t in the hall.
I will also point out that Andy Reid isn’t blameless in the McNabb era. As many have pointed out, he wasn’t exactly surrounded by pro bowl caliber receivers, especially at the beginning of his tenure. I think the biggest splash was signing T.O., and the Eagles have since signed Jackson and a number of much better wide receivers than McNabb had at the beginning of his run.
Warren Moon never won a Super Bowl, but he was a HoF QB. Dan Marino also. I think if McNabb wins a SB with the Redskins, he’s in. If he doesn’t, his stats will have to push him over the top. Right now, I don’t think he has the stats to get in.
Touche!
Despite your constant insistence that I’m taking positions like that, I haven’t said almost anything at all about how good I think he is. What I’ve done is point out that you started by talking about how he could never win, and is the next Kordell Stewart, has never played well in important games, can’t complete a 15 yard crossing route, and all that, and except for the Kordell Stewart thing, you have yet to acknowledge that all of it is demonstrably not the case.
You don’t know what I think about the trade or about McNabb, because I haven’t said. I wouldn’t even have posted to the thread if you and Philster hadn’t showed up to embody exactly the kind of irrational, bilious fandom that has honestly turned me off of the NFL entirely. You started with the crazy, and are slowly retreating to a reasonable position. I’ve just been pointing out the residual crazy, which you’ve handled more or less by telling me I think the Redskins are going to go undefeated.
Since you asked, no, I don’t think he’s a hall of famer. I don’t even think it was a bad idea to trade him. That’s very much not the point, since it’s a far cry from “not a hall of famer” to the intensely personal and factually unsupportable glee you’ve been reporting over the death of his career.
It’s obvious you know nothing about football.
:p:D
Let’s say Aaron Rodgers brings you a storybook playoff run for the ages that brings another Lombardi trophy back to Green Bay this year. How eager would you be to trade him away for Brady?
If that’s your reaction, you’ve blown your fan credibility with me. But hey, maybe you are more of a generic football fan than a Packer fan; what do I know?
Most Jets fans would agree with me. (That they’d much rather beat Brady than trade for him.) I know Mike Greenberg certainly does.
That Dan Marino sure was a lousy QB, wasn’t he?
Eli was easily as important to SB42 as Ben was to SB43. Hell, they both even got the benefit of a crazy catch.
You also seem to forget Eli’s performance in the playoffs leading up to the Superbowl. I’ll agree that the defense was as important as Eli in the Superbowl win, but not more. However, in the three games leading up to the Superbowl Eli was clearly the man who carried the team on to the promised land. And again, he was a huge part of the final game as well.
Your dismissal of Eli’s performance based on the fact that you don’t like his face or pouty demeanor undercuts any claim you have to objective football critique. I get that he’s easy to hate for any non-Giants fan. But trust me, if he did for your organization what he did for mine, you wouldn’t trade him for anybody.
Well, maybe not right away, but if Eli flounders for a few years and the Jints have multiple seasons in a row like last year’s…
Obviously. Of course, the same is true for anybody, including Tom Brady.
Also, don’t forget that Eli led the Giants to the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years. Let’s look at the list of QBs who can make that claim:
Tom Brady (4/5)
Peyton Manning (5/5)
Eli Manning (4/5)
Who am I forgetting?
McNabb?
I seriously don’t know. Its not Brees, Rivers, Palmer or Ben though.