Men: Do you feel 'powerful' when you buy a woman dinner? Women: 'powerless'?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Three weeks back the Sunday NY Times ran a column in the Business section about the age-old issue of “who pays the check?”

There was this line from the piece: “Many men like to pick up the bill; it makes them feel powerful and masculine.”

Then just this past week the Times ran a letter critical of the article that read: “Why encourage men to use money to feel powerful instead of humane?”

(Incidentally, both the article and the letter were written by women).

Now personally, I think that men paying for women is utterly sexist and unfair (and I told the Times so in a letter that they did not run) but that is not what this thread is about, okay? If it was, I’d have posted in GD.

No, my Q concerns this supposed sense of “power” that men get by paying for women on dates. By power, I think people are really talking about sexual entitlement, as in “I paid for dinner, so you better put out after dinner.” But maybe not – I’ll leave that up to the discussion.

Anyway, I have often heard this power business being dragged into the “who pays?” question – mostly by women, arguing on both sides of the issue. Trouble is, I have no idea what the hell they are talking about. If anyone goes around sporting a sense of entitlement these days, I think it’s single women. When I pay for a date, the last thing I feel is powerful. In fact, I feel awfully put-upon, like I’m trapped in a lose-lose situation:

  1. Don’t pay the whole check and you’re a loooooser, or
  2. Pay it all and she’s thinking “Thanks for dinner… sucker!”

Men, in this day and age do any of you guys really feel powerful by paying the check? Do you think it entitles you to sexual favors afterwards?

Women, in this day and age do you feel powerless when a guy pays? Do you really think guys feel entitled to sexual favors after they’ve paid for dinner? (Mind you, I didn’t ask if he was entitled to favors, only if you think he feels entitled to favors.)

Thanks all. Let’s keep it civil.

2

When I pay for dinner, either for a date or a friend, I feel polite. I very rarely feel powerful about anything.

3

What a bizarre supposition. I usually figure whoever does the inviting pays, unless some other arrangement has been made. When I dine regularly with friends of either gender, we usually just end up taking turns to pay.

4

If it were a situation in which the roles could (and often are) easily reversed – between me and this specific woman for whom I’m buying dinner, I mean – then I would not describe it as “powerful”, at least not in the sense of power in relationship to her.

If, for some reason, it were unlikely that she would be buying me dinner, I would not be buying her dinner; but, ignoring that, if I were anyway, I would not feel “powerful”, I would feel like a victim of a sexist social system and I would resent the hell out of it.

5

I don’t feel powerless if a guy buys me dinner, nor do I feel like I must “put out” for said paid meal. When a fella asks me out to dinner, then I assume that it is because he wants my company, and I don’t go expecting for him to pay my way. Even when I’ve been invited, I always offer to pay for my share and gracefully acquiese if my offer to pay is refused.

Likewise, I do not feel powerful if I buy a guy dinner, nor do I expect him to “put out” because I paid for his meal. I invited him and paid for his dinner because I wanted the benefit of his company and because I wanted to treat him, and if he offers to pay for his share or even the whole meal, then I’m not going to quibble over it. Life’s too short for that.

6

My social circle includes some people who may be broke at any given time, especially right before payday. If I invite someone to dinner, and want to pay for it because I want to go now, not Saturday, and I know they’re probably broke, I say “Hey, wanna go out to dinner at X’s? I’m buying.”

If someone asks me to dinner and doesn’t specify, I usually inquire before accepting the invitation, unless it wouldn’t be a problem either way. Then we’ll discuss it after the meal.

Corr

7

This was the Maureen Dowd op-ed piece, right, and the letters that followed it up a few days later? I thought the original column was her usual piece of thrown-off-in-30-minutes crap, but the letters were amusing…sorry they didn’t print yours.

Since I went to college in the magical decade of the 1970s, I never found myself in a position where the lady expected me to pay…we were still in the first burgeoning of the feminist movement, you see. The chicks ponied up for the beer right along with the guys. It’s these POST-feminist screwballs you got to look out for. Think the world should be handed to 'em on a platter.

8

Hmm. I’ve generally felt mostly like I’ve a little bit less money after paying for something.

9

I don’t like to be paid for, but I don’t think it is because I feel like I am losing power. Rather, I feel like I am taking advantage of someone’s good manners, and as a good person I should fight the temptation to do so. Now, if I had more money I would be more comfortable letting someone else buy a round because I could recipicate easily. As I can’t, I try to avoid situations like that.

10

Good heavens. What kind of women are you dating that this is how you feel? I certainly hope the men I dated didn’t feel that way.

When a man buys me dinner, it’s usually because he has invited me out, and like celestina, I will offer to pay and not make a issue of it if he’d rather pick it up. I’ve never, ever felt that a man’s paying for my meal means that I am beholden to him in any way (powerless). He did something nice. Now I can either return the favor, or not, depending on the circumstances. Likewise, if I invited a man out, I would pay. Simple as that.

Men who, as a rule, want to pay for dinner aren’t, I think, looking to take the power in the situation from the women; rather, I thought it harkened back (sorry for the generalization, here) to the wish to prove his ability to provide. It’s proof that he’s financially stable, generous, socially conscious, what have you. In other words, not powerful compared to the woman, but powerful in the world (able to take care of himself as well as others, if the need arises). More than any of that, though, I take it to be a gesture of friendship and respect.

For the record, I have never, never ever, thought of a man as a “sucker” just because he paid the whole check. If he thinks enough of my company to be willing to let me simply enjoy his, it’s fine by me.

11

I won’t deny that sometimes I feel I ought to pay the whole cost of a meal even if I don’t really want to, but I put that down to politeness (or my own hang-ups; who knows).

Having said that, if I buy someone (male or female) dinner, I feel good because it’s a gift. That’s all. Whether I really wanted to pay or not, it feels nice to be able to give someone something, especially if they didn’t expect it. There are no associated entitlements as a result.

On the other hand, if I’m out with someone and they insist on paying some/all, I’ll jokingly argue, but if they’re serious I’ll back down. Again, I don’t assume it means they want/don’t want anything more.

12

Uke, no, I did not see that Maureen Dowd column nor the follow-up letters. The article I’m talking about was by Abby Ellin in the Biz section three weeks back. (But I checked out the Dowd pieces online since you mentioned them; yeah, it’s basically the same premise: greedy, ego-inflated princesses vs. confused and put-upon suckers, uh… I mean, men. The big difference is that Ellin plays the apologist. It’s okay that women want what they want 'cause, er… [giggle]… ummm… [shrug]… that’s what they want!)

Beadalin, what kind of women am I dating? New York women, that’s what kind. These days New York single women enjoy a sense of entitlement rivalled only by the ancient emperors of China.

13

For me it’s more that the women keep paying for dinner/lunch. I really don’t mind too much but sometimes I have to insist that they let me pay for a change.

14

I don’t so much feel powerful if I pay, but I always pay when I can, primarily because when I don’t pay for both of us, I feel very awkward. Equality of the sexes or not, I just feel like I should. This is not to say, however, that when the offer of “Let me take you out to dinner” comes up, I have a problem with her taking the bill…

15

I’ve never felt powerless when a guy bought dinner for me as I could have just as easily bought dinner for him. In the relationship I’m in, it works out very well because I have a compulsive need to save money and he has a need to spend it (usually on dinner and tips), so it’s like he is spending for us while I’m saving for us.

16

I guess I’ve always just gone by the general rule that the asker pays, with the usual caveats. (Chip in if it’s expensive, pick up the check if he’s picked up the last couple, etc.)

The only time I ever felt powerless over a dinner was after I consumed the better part of a bottle of wine and then fell out the front door of the restaurant (didn’t see the step down). And, yes, a guy had bought the wine, but I think he felt the laugh was worth it.

Can I just mention the thing I don’t get? The whole “men ordering for women” thing, which is also antiquated, and rightly so. I can remember waiting tables and getting exchanges like this: Me (to the woman): What can I bring you? Woman (to her male date): I’ll have the fish. Man (to me): She’ll have the fish. Yeah, so I gathered since she was, y’know, speaking English and all. What was up with that?

17

I don’t feel powerful. maybe a bit more agile, since my wallet is much lighter.

18

Hear, hear, Jodi! I have never understood that one. Furthermore, I have a vauge idea that back in the archaic 40s and 50s, the man actually selected the entree for both people, and it was only after the third child that it was polite to bring up that you, you know, sorta kinda detest mushrooms. Am I right about this? Please say no.

19

Really? Granted, my experience of NYC single women over the past 20 years or so has been from the standpoint of an Attached Guy, but they are ALL whining about how every man in the city is either married, gay, or has a Mommy attachment. Desperationsville.

Confronted with a talented, accomplished hunkerino like you, I should think they’d be lining up to buy you a meal, even if it only gets them arm-around.

20

I feel very impowered when I buy Drachillix a great meal: he is such a good cook, it’s the only way I can give him impressive food.
He then muses on how he can duplicate or improve on the dish and within days I am enjoying his version of impressive food. And I’m always impressed.
Except for that one shrimp thing he copied when we got back from Monterey. Eeeeeww.