How is it a generalization to say “Men who do X are really fucking annoying, and there appear to be lots of men who do X”?
because your evidence of “most men do X” is nurses ‘guessing’ a fifty percent number (which means just as often as not) and your husband. Not exactly a stirring case.
I’ll quote myself.
Or
Please show me where I claimed that “most men” do anything.
I found something to support your positions. I said, erroneously
Many. Not a majority. They say half. That was me sloppily misrepresenting what they said (whether you believe that they know what they’re talking about is another issue).
Oh, for fuck’s sake, jsgoddess - do we REALLY have to go there? I could take any group X and say that they are statistically more likely to do Y thing, but I refuse to give people the satisfaction of having a reason to jump on me. I don’t know why you think it’s o.k. to generalize about men when you know perfectly goddam well that you’d NEVER get away with that kind of shit regarding any other group. You could have just titled your OP “My husband won’t call the doctor and I have to call for him.” Don’t hate ALL men because you aren’t happy with the one you got.
We could get into a whole argument about why more women make the phone calls than men (possibly because more men work and more women are at home and available to make phone calls), but there is absolutely no point in doing so. It’s just a silly, fucked-up generalization that you should never have made in the first place.
My God, some of you people are anal beyond belief. It’s quite obvious which group of men jsgoddess speaks of: those who are too chickenshit to call a doctor, and act all tough while, for example, their heart is about to explode.
If you don’t fall into that group, don’t take offense. Unless you like taking offense, which in the case of some posters here seems the most likely explanation.
Note that I said “some posters”. :rolleyes:
It isn’t a wild idea to say that many men don’t take responsibilty for their healthcare, either. It’s common enough that physicians and people doing gender studies discuss it often.
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http://www.mypharmacy.co.uk/health_books/books/y/your_mans_health.htm
The social behaviour of men seems to be largely what militates against their health. Four out of five men do not visit their doctor when they feel unwell. […] Women are traditionally the main force behind men’s health, and tend to take the initiative not just in caring for their men, but in educating them about health. Forty per cent of men will only attend their family doctor, especially for preventative care, if their partner tells them to (usually part of the healthcare responsibility for the whole family). A MORI poll found that women have a better understanding of the male body than do men, as well as being generally better informed about health than are men.
http://www.aventis.com/future/attachments/78577620040127135949.pdf (pdf)
In families,it is women who bear the responsibility for healthcare. […] Health service studies have shown that women visit doctors’ offices three times more often than men do.
http://www.pfnpublishing.com/prod300.htm
The reason why many male health centers fail, says Dr. Courtenay, is because they don’t take into account important gender differences in behavior and attitude toward health. Men are less likely than women to visit a physician and more likely to be under the misperception that they are in good health, according to research gathered by MHC. “If you think your health is excellent and there’s a men’s health clinic right down the street, you aren’t going use it because you don’t feel susceptible to disease,” Dr. Courtenay says.
It is widely acknowledged that women are the primary healthcare decision-makers for their families. Additionally, “Women are oftentimes the first to take responsibility for men’s health,” Dr. Courtenay says. “They are the first to encourage their sons, husbands, fathers and brothers to seek medical care.” This responsibility, he adds, puts an enormous amount of stress on women, especially if the male is resistant to care.
http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/news/14_nov_health.asp
Women are more likely to report problems accessing health services, for example for transport reasons, while men are more likely to delay seeking medical advice because they do not want to accept they are ill.
http://www.srhs.org/betterhealth3.asp?StoryID=267
Joseph Balsamo, M.D., section chief of Internal Medicine at the Hospital of Saint Raphael, almost daily sees the different ways men and women approach health care. “Men who get sick seem to feel that they have to tough it out,” says Balsamo, who’s board-certified in internal medicine. “Women seem more comfortable reporting medical problems to their doctor. Men often begin a talk with me by saying, ‘My wife made me come here today.’ ”
Indeed, says Saint Raphael cardiologist Siegfried Kra, M.D., author of “How to Keep Your Husband Alive,” who believes women naturally fall into the role of nurturer and caregiver, and that most do the job well.
Oncologist Andrea L. Silber, M.D., director of early detection and prevention at Saint Raphael’s Father Michael J. McGivney Center for Cancer Care, agrees to some extent. But she also believes both groups have health-seeking traits their partners would do well to learn to emulate.
“Women are more communicative, but are less likely to use preventive services, like health screening,” says Silber, who’s board-certified in radiation oncology. “They also sometimes let concerns about other family members’ health get in the way of seeing to their own health needs. Men aren’t as likely to push their more serious health care concerns to the back burner.”
My former boss’ dad was one of those “tough it out” guys. Didn’t go to the doctor until he was coughing up blood. Had to have surgery for lung cancer, and then never went back for a single follow-up appointment or treatment. Was very surprised when, two years later, gravely ill, he was taken to the hospital and told he had end-stage lung cancer. All the time he was in the hospital, dying, he kept expecting them to start chemotherapy. Even after the doctor explained that chemo would have helped right after the surgery, but now it was too late, he still thought they’d start his treatment soon. He never quite understood, and he didn’t have Alzheimer’s, either. Just kept denying there was a problem.
My uncle was the same way when he was dying from lung cancer…kept saying he was glad he didn’t have the Big C. It was sort of like he had stuck his fingers in his ears and sung la-la-la-la every time the doctor mentioned cancer.
Both these guys were single…no wives to make sure they got to the doctor’s office.
I’m not really interested in it. I’ve read about Pap smears enough to have formed the opinion that they’re not reliable enough for me to bother with. It, to me, is nothing more than an inconvenience, although one that people feel free to beat me over the head with at any opportunity.
As for ‘being a statistic’, maybe I will and maybe I won’t, but after the hell I went through with being treated for lupus, I’m not even sure I’d want to know if I’ve got cancer.
I drive like I shop…Oooooh, look…pretty!
which is why I will never ever try for a pilot’s liscense.
Speaking of silly, fucked-up generalizations… :rolleyes:
Geez, people. Some of you get so easily worked up over the slightest thing. You really ought to reconsider, as it’s been shown that chronic stress has such adverse health effects as immune system problems, high blood pressure and increased risk of stroke, sleep deprivation, memory loss, skin problems, and increased risk of developing eating disorders.
[/“nagging” female mode]
That was pretty much my point. Not to beat you over the head with it, but if you catch it early, cervical cancer treatment consists of a minor outpatient procedure under local anesthesia, with no followup treatment beyond more regular checkups (no chemo, radiation, or pretty much anything more than a couple of post-surgicalTylenol). You can basically go straight back to work afterwards if you want. But if you don’t catch it until it becomes invasive (past the point at which it can be detected by the naked eye; my doc thought I was fine until the lab results came back), you’re talking about a much more major surgery, or worse.
The overwhelming majority of cervical cancer mortality is among women who have never had a Pap smear, or have gone 5+ years without one. Plus checkups can catch alll sorts of other things that are often asymptomatic until they have already caused irreparable damage. You can do your own thing, of course, but me, I’ll stick with my regular checkups.
I dunno, Coldie - I’m just weary of all the whiny, bitchy, “I hate men” threads. It’s just getting fucking old, that’s all. People need to get a new schtick around here.
Well, what can I say. Whenever I read a rant, I’m not going to assume the person is at their most rational behaviour at the time of posting. So I’ll allow a little hyperbole, a slight exaggeration, et cetera. In that light, I don’t think jsgoddess did too bad with her OP: she made a generalisation, but she backed it up and qualified it. That is, she’s obviously not talking about all men. YMMV.
I just had one yesterday. Ick.
But the slightly scary part is that the nurse practitioner found something in my left breast she wants me to get checked out – it’s probably nothing, just an extra-dense bit of tissue or something, but I’d never noticed it. Eep. Better safe than sorry, though. Time to find a doctor!
I very rarely go to the doctor, but I do get yearly pelvic exams, as much as I hate it. Most other things that could go wrong with me I could at least SEE, but while the girl parts are in good order, if they weren’t I might not know. I’d rather know.
You’re right. And when I start an “I hate men” thread, I’ll send you a note to make sure you can avoid it.
Since you still don’t get it, I’ll explain one more time. X is annoying as all fuck, and it’s not precisely safe, either. Lots of men do X. Those men are annoying as all fuck.
If lots of women do X, they are annoying too. But I’ve encountered very few instances of women doing X. My evidence is anecdotal, but I said that from the outset.
If you do X, you are annoying. If you do not do X, you might still be annoying (and, frankly, you are), but you aren’t within the scope of the OP.
All people are not annoying in this precise way. Only some people are annoying in this precise way. It appears that the people who are annoying in this precise way tend to be men.
That was exactly the point that I was making.
I’m one of those people who sees a doctor if I feel that death is imminent. Some of my relatives are those who have their own reserved chair in the doctor’s waiting room. They constantly nag me and say things like ‘Why do I have to keep telling you to get regular doctor visits?’
Point is, they don’t have to. I’m happy the way I am, and I’m not asking them to make appointments for me. If I were asking them to do that, then I would deserve this rant, just like jsgoddess’s husband does.