I like Metallica. I think they’re a talented band, their recent pissing and moaning over how much money they don’t have notwithstanding.
I have noticed a continual and perpetual complaint among a great deal of so-called Metallica “fans.”
“Wah wah wah. Metallica’s old stuff kicked so much ass. Their new stuff is such a sell out. Wah wah wah. They sold out.”
Now, I gotta issue an honest opinion here. I like pretty much everything Metallica’s ever put out, including their recent stuff. In fact, I like a lot of their recent stuff better.
I don’t particularly care for Kill 'Em All at all. Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning are pretty good. I really really like The Black Album and S&M. The music is more complex and interesting in those, IMHO.
I haven’t listened to Load or Re-Load yet, so I am unable to make a judgment.
So, Metallica fans: I implore, nay, I defy you to please explain to me why so many people seem to think the latter stuff Sucks Ass.
Personally, I think it’s just mindless metalhead zealouts parrotting the same ol’ line without bothering to form their own opinions.
I don’t understand why people accuse bands who go large of “selling out.” It always seemed to me that they’re just projecting their message across a larger audience… And looking to earn some money for their work(People seem to think that having to do two shows a night repeating the same damn thing must be easy as hell).
And arguing that Metallica was selling out by hating Napster? Jumpin’ jack christ, when will you people just accept that Naspter was nothing more than a way to pirate music?
I am honestly not sure what to say on this matter. I liked Metallica up to and including AJFA.
However, it wasn’t popularity which turned me off to them. And I always liked all of Green Day stuff even though their style hanged pretty dramatically. Nirvana got better with stardom, IMO. Danzig has changed his tune multiple times and I like everything he’s put out. I didn’t like Slayer’s music before Reign in Blood.
I do strenuously dislike the term “true fan.” Meaningless, IMO.
No way…I agree completely. Green Day has matured as time went on (check out Warning if you disagree). Nirvana matured. No Doubt matured. Korn matured (sort of). Red Hot Chili Peppers matured. Sublime/Long Beach Dub matured. Hell, even Megadeth matured.
Metallica did NOT mature. They started to suck. Listen to the chord structures and the guitar riffs. They aren’t nearly as complex, deep, or interesting as they used to be. To really appreciate this, listen to Load and Reload. The black album was the last decent album they put out. It is better than …And Justice for All but not as good as Master of Puppets.
S/M is weird, cuz it’s a live album. I, for one, generally don’t like most live albums that much. However, there are some kick-ass tunes in there…Hero of the Day is amazing, as well as the instrumentals on there. But some of the other covers aren’t that good…Master of Puppets was disappointing, IMHO.
So there. That’s my two cents. I feel so much better now.
I love S&M, but then I used to be in the high school orchestra, and I just sit and listen and think how much fun it would be to be playing Metallica on the cello with the band.
[sub]Why, yes, I DO own both Apocalytica CDs[/sub]
I’m sick of that arguement too. I used to think they were sellouts to, then I realized, I actually liked the stuff, it was just more accepted. Yeah, they aren’t all pissed off at the world anymore, but they aren’t 19, living in a warehouse, surviving on bologna on hand anymore either. They aren’t gonna write pissed off, fuck the establishment songs anymore. Their style has changed, but their 80’s metal peers who didn’t are still playing to half filled clubs, if they are lucky.
I’m not mad that they aren’t all thrash anymore, Nothing Else Matters is one of my favorite songs.
I’m upset because they aren’t as musically complex and interesting anymore. While I don’t find their new stuff to be repulsive, it’s just no longer something I would plunk down good money to buy…just like I wouldn’t pay money for most of the bands out there with generic guitar lines. I’m not saying they sold out, I’m just saying I don’t think they are as good as they once were.
Although, they still put on one heckuva live show.
I like the new stuff, but in no way is it more mature or complex as the pre Black album stuff. They still kick ass, but now they have to fit there ass kickings into 3 minute songs with a verse, chorus, verse pattern.
I like their new stuff more than the old stuff. It’s more original, unique, and not so “We-are-a-metal-band-so-we-have-to-sound-just-like-all-other-metal-bands”.
I don’t think they sold out. Frankly I don’t care about the Napster thing. If you want to hate them, hate them. But don’t tell me to hate their music because of something they did outside of the recording studio.
I disliked Kill 'Em All. I like Puppets. I like AJFA. I liked Load, not Re-Load so much, Black was okay and I absolutely LOVED S&M.
But if I ever told some of my friends that I like the new stuff more than the old stuff…they would have my head.
Just out of curiosity–is there anyone who started listening to Metallica in the pre-black album days who prefers their later stuff? How about someone who started listening after the black album and prefers the early stuff very strongly? I think that preferences here are not independent of when one is first exposed.
Yeah. That would be me. I got into Metallica when Reload came out. Thought “The Memory Remains” was pretty hip stuff. (I was in middle school at the time. I guess I’m a youngin!) Anyways, so I listened to that a lot. Read reviews on Amazon.com when deciding to buy next album (this was pre-Napster and I wasn’t exactly loaded. No pun intended.) Purchased Master of Puppets. I think it is their greatest album, followed by RTL and AJFA. S&M is pretty good. I LIKE the Black Album, Load, and Reload; but I think that pre-Black Album material is far superior, and it’s what I LOVE. It’s probably a matter of taste. I DO think they “sold out” to some extent, though. Cutting the hair, changing the musical style… call me a cynic if you must.
I started listening to Metallica when I was a Jr. in HS. Kill 'em All, Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets were all out. And Justice for All came out my Sr. year. It was amazing. It made me go back and listen to the other albums in more detail.
The “Black” Album, came out when I was in college and I went out and bought the tape (showing my age there) the day it came out. I listened to it while I was cutting the yard, a bit of a ritual for me. All the anticipation and excitement I felt quickly left. It was lukewarm at best. I thought “Of Wolf and Man” was cool, other than that, it was crummy. I can’t give you any in depth analysis of it. The “Black” Album just didn’t have the same heart in it that the earlier albums did.
So, FWIW, my favorites are:
…And Justice for All
Master of Puppets
Kill 'em All
Ride the Lightning
The Black Album and anything after
Metallica still puts out catchy tunes, but so did Bon Jovi.
I like a lot of 'Tallica’s newer stuff. I once said to my friend that The Black Album was my favorite. What a mistake; I got a serious tongue lashing about how The Black Album is the worst one and how I don’t know jack about Metallica because I like their newer stuff. I guess Metallica is just a sore point with some people, and it’s a battle I’d rather not have.
[sup]Whenever I post in a Metallica thread, I have to give a shout-out to racinchikki (It’s a rule or something): yeah, yeah, I know all about the old-school’s “oft-underestimated romantic undertones” ;)[/sup]
The Black Album was my first taste of Metallica. My next were Ride the Lightning and AJFA. I dunno…I liked the Black Album. Just not as much as some of the earlier stuff.
Well personaly I like the old stuff better. I guess thats just because I well on my way to becoming an old fart.
However, I don’t think the stuff they do now is a sell out.
And so the fuck what if they want to make a little change for the music they create, This kills me, I wonder how many of these people that bitch about how they are sellouts would be willing to go to work for free or even half the money they do it for now? Remember when these guys started out they were not getting any radio play. not becuase they sucked but becuase their music at the time was considered too cutting edge or raw. While at the same time posser bands like Jon Bon Jovi were getting all the radio play. In spite of all this Metallica prevailed and became a benchmark for other bands to follow. So I say they deserve everything thats comming to them. They deserve payback for all those nights they had to sleep in a van down by the river.
The newer stuff took a while, but it eventually grew on me. I started listening to them shortly after MoP came out in…'86?
To me they are one of those bands that if asked what my favorite song or album was, it would entirely depend on my mood and/or what album I’d most recently listened to.
As to the OP, I think the claims of selling are based on their strategies for selling themselves.
Up until the video for One, they hadn’t made any videos or otherwise advertised themselves in any mainstream way. They defied the accepted (and assumed to be the only) methods of gaining popularity and came into their own through word of mouth and consistently putting on awesome live shows.
After One, came the Black album with its slew of videos, followed by that forgettable bit with the eyeliner.
To loads of loyal fans, I’d imagine it felt like a betrayal. Metallica was their little secret.
They could have easily retired as multi-millionaires without ever having made a video or playing at the MTV music awards or any of that commonplace means of self promotion.
I enjoy their newer stuff on the same level that I enjoy Ozzy or various hair bands from the '80s that I detested at the time - it kinda rocks, some of the songs are catchy, some of the musicianship is good, and I won’t change the radio station if it comes on. I wouldn’t pay to listen to it, though. I like thrash. In my opinion it can be the best genre in heavy metal. Metallica were masters of the genre, and turned out 4 great thrash albums, and I own every one.
I think a lot of the hatred old fans have for the new stuff is that they feel betrayed. People who followed Metallica from the old days were usually in their late teens or early twenties when the Black album came out. They saw Metallica as more mature and serious than most of the music out there - it was one of those bands that you listened to when you were 13 that you weren’t embarassed to admit you still liked. And then they come out with an album of totally different music, not as serious, with cheesey 'Yeah yeah!'s and goofier lyrics, that didn’t always sound dark and heavy. It suddenly seemed like something to be ashamed of.
I remember in my late-teens I had convinced a lot of my friends who were fans of goth and new-wave (later to be redubbed alternative) music that Metallica was cool, that they weren’t the same stuff as most of the metal you heard on the radio. When I heard that Metallica had a new album coming out, I couldn’t wait. When I heard the first single, ‘Enter Sandman’ I got a hint that something was wrong, but it was a good song and Metallica occasionally had songs that weren’t quite as thrashy as the rest of the album on past albums. I bought the album, rushed home and put it on. I got to ‘Sad but True’ before one of my friends said ‘This sucks’. That lead to a grudge against Metallica that lasted for many years.
I think one of the reasons that the new heavier grunge and alternative metal took off so well in the early '90s was that there were a lot of disillusioned former Metallica fans wanting something serious and dark to listen to. Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Tool, Nirvana…they weren’t thrash, but they were HEAVY. I found new music to listen to.
I’m not a Metallica fan, nor am I a Metallica “fan.” I don’t particularly like (or dislike) their old stuff or their new stuff.
But Metallica as a group surely SOLD OUT more thoroughly than any other band in history. It’s pretty simple, really. May I posit a definition of a band’s selling-out: Ceasing to make music for the fans, and starting to make music for the money.
(Now I know that’s not a perfectly defensible definition, some artists make music for themselves, or whatever, but it works.) And while I don’t argue simply that Metallica sold out by ‘hating Napster,’ I think that by this definition, their behavior in that case shows pretty clearly that they sold out. They threatened lawsuits against anyone and everyone that downloaded any of their music from napster. Remember that shot of James Hetfeild wheeling around the cart of printouts of names? If that’s not the most straightforward example of sacrificing the fan for the cash, I don’t know what is.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t still like their music, if you do. I’ve never quite understood what ultimately was the point of the ‘sellout’ argument. All I’ve been able to come up with is that it has to do with cool. If you like a band that’s sold out, you’re not cool. And typically the people saying that some artist has sold out is someone that used to be a fan, or considers themself to be an old-school fan. In these cases, it’s pretty obvious that the point of the argument is to protect the ego of the old-school fan and to distinguish them from the scads of new fans that only started liking the artist in question after they became popular. Thus, an artist is usually accused of selling out as soon as they become popular. See above references to Green Day, No Doubt, and others.
Anyway, as far as I’m concerned, you can be as cool as you like. I don’t care. But I still think Metallica sold out.
I liked Metallica up to AJFA. Then Bob Rock became involved with them. I saw Bob talking with the band on TV, basically saying: These guys used to put too many riffs and changes in a song. If you want to make music for a long time, you have to pace yourself. Use one or two riffs per song (all paraphrased). I bought the black album, and was disappointed. They followed Bob’s advice and stopped making Metallica songs with all the complexity and so on. They definitely sold out in my book. I don’t hate them for it, I’m just not interested in their music anymore. If I feel like listening to Metallica, I put on RTL or MOP.