Stoid, it’s really depressing, albeit unsurprising, to find a leftist who abandons principle for partisanship. If Bill O’Reilly had pulled the same stunt on his book tour, you’d be the first to denounce him.
Go to Michaelmoore.com and look at the upper right corner of the front page.
“Police RAID (capitals his) Mike’s Booksigning in San Diego”
That’s designed to give the impression that he was the victim of a government plot to silence him. That is a lie.
No, he was in violation of his permit and he was mouthing off to the cops. That is a lie.
According to this site, that seems unlikely. so we’ll that doubtful.
The sad thing is that Moore’s message–that the American worker is getting screwed and our government in apathetic to the needs of its citizens–is more vital than ever, but it is being obscured by his massive ego and willingness to distort the truth to make himself look good.
Face it, Stoid, Michael Moore is the fat, lying, dishonest Rush Limbaugh of the left.
Ahem… at 15 minutes past the time he was supposed to be finished, he wasn’t winding down and heading for the door - his book signing was in full force with no plans to shut down, people everywhere. Moore said himself they usually went past midnight. At quarter past 11, when the show didn’t seem to be winding down at all, the janitor had a job to do and a home to get back to and calling the cops was his/her judgement call. I see no problem with that. Michael Moore should have been out of there at 11, that was the agreement, and Michael Moore broke it.
I wouldn’t expect the janitor to sit around all night waiting for Moore to decide to leave.
That’s simply not true. First of all, he wasn’t prosecuted. More importantly, he wasn’t even arrested. So no argument can be made for selective prosecution or arrest. If you can show me that the police in San Diego do not respond to calls made when the offending participant is conservative, then you might have a point. The police were called and they responded. That’s what they’re supposed to do.
In fact, the only “evidence” that Moore was targeted because of his beliefs are Moore’s own comments. His sponsor doesn’t even back up his story.
Equality and justice for all are indeed important concepts. Fortunately, those concepts weren’t violated.
Is this the biggest deal in the world? No. It goes a bit to credibility but it’s hardly earth- shattering. But the defenses are becoming increasingly desperate.
As has been pointed out, the signing was hardly wrapping up when the janitor made his request. And the janitor wouldn’t be going home “right now,” he’d be taking time to clean the auditorium after everyone left.
I work retail. I close at nine. In case the people in the store don’t know this I give a ten minute and five minute warning. If people don’t respond to that, I walk up to them when we close, tell them we are closed and ask them to bring everything they want to buy up to the front so I can get them out of the store and finish closing.
At 9:15, if I walked up to someone and said “Sir, we’re closed, could you please finish making your purchases and bring them to the front register?” and he said “No, I often hang out until 10, 10:30.” I would call the police. I don’t care if he is some self styled champion of the little people, he needs to leave so I can do my job.
If MM knew he needed until 3am (or whenever) to finish his signing he should have reserved the hall until then. Hall is only open until 11? He knew this when he signed the contract. He agreed to it and then tried to weasel after the fact with the poor sod who was supposed to clean up after him. Its not acceptable behavior from anyone.
Then, after the fact, he tries to make out like he was being opressed! I don’t care what his political views are, he’s being a butthead on this.
Bill Clinton screwed up the SDMB board! One is tempted to cry out for a special prosecutor except…would he dare piss off both Stoidy and Anthracite? No man who cherishes his 'nads would dare!
But enough of this cheerful banter…
MM is not, in truth, much of a satirist. He can’t write for sour apples. He hasn’t a hint of post-modernist irony. Can’t hold a candle to P.J. O’Rourke, who is a hoot (if he could just lay off endlessly exposing his reader to his drinking problem and the “I used to be a hippy until I saw the Dark Side paid cash…”)
As to the matter at hand: I have read Stupid White Men, like any good stalwart of the Fourth International. It suffers rather a lot from being dated. On the other hand, MM was sniffing after Ken Lay before the rest of us heard the name. And he provides cites for his statistics.
But it isn’t funny. We sorely need a lefty populist satirist with bite and wit, and MM ain’t it. So why defend him? Because he fights the single greatest enemy of the Republic, the one mighty threat that can bring our country to destruction. He fights apathy! For that, God bless his chubby butt!
As to the incident at hand: this jury says only Not Proven. Keep in mind the poor schmuck is on a Book Tour, which has remarkable similarity to a Death March, especially if your book has only luke warm support from its publisher. The poor guy is totally out of his depth here, he is expecting to talk for two hours to five hundred people, sign two hundred books and he’s oughta there. No such luck. He is swamped! As his web site points out, he has had an average of three-four hours sleep lately. A bit of slack-cutting is in order here.
He may not be the Paladin of the People. But he is the enemy of the Suits. Sic 'em, Mike!
[emphasis mine]
Is it just me or does anyone else see the delicious irony in this statement from one who champions the rights of the little guy, so to speak?
The thing about Michael Moore, and I agree with a lot of what he says, liked Roger & Me, and enjoyed TV Nation, is that he’s so hostile, confrontational, and smug all the time, it bothers me. It reminds me of those Truth ads. I really hate smoking, but those Truth ads seem gratuitously cruel.
So, it seems to be the same way with Moore here. This was a little thing (book signings often go on longer than they are planned, if it’s a popular author), but on Moore’s web diary, the rhetoric has turned a little incident into Michael Moore being oppressed by the Man. I know he tried for humor here, but it came off as smugness.
Oh, waahh. There are plenty of other folks who go on “grueling” book tours who don’t act like pompous fools, and then lie about it afterwards.
I don’t see Mr. Moore responding with a “Sorry, I acted like a jerk there…I’ll try an do better” in his diary…now that several days have passed.
People who have expressed disgust in this threads about MM’s actions have been accused of launching partisan attacks.
Would you be leaping to the defense of Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh or other folks outside of your own political circles, if they had acted in a like manner?
FTR, I would have given equal criticism to conservatives who act like assholes…indeed I HAVE done so in this very forum.
Just as a point of order, I got to meet and hear Eric Bogosian speak last week at Border’s in Chicago. It was the middle of the day on Friday, and it was packed with people, and he was intensely gracious to both his fans and the employees of the store, asking them if he was ‘good on time’ or if they needed him to leave.
This is a guy who’s writing is notoriously assholish, and he was nothing but a gentlemen to everyone involved.
From this are we to infer that Rush is skinny, truth-telling, and honest? No arguments that MM is the liberal equivalent to Limbaugh, but somehow I don’t think that should surprise anyone. I don’t think he makes any bones about being a liberal.
But anyway, I think if this is the worst you righties can dig up on him, he ain’t doin’ too bad. If anything, having to stay hours late and still not be able to sign everyone’s stuff is more of a positive indication for him than anything else.
Also, seems like y’all should be more upset with the people who arranged his signing, not him. I don’t really see why the janitor approached him in the first place. Why not the organizers? As I understand it, from other diary entries, it has been an on-going issue that the stores bringing him in haven’t adequately planned for the crowds that were coming. I find it hard to fault him for wanting to make his fans happy, they’re the ones who buy his stuff, after all.
The snopes thing is more disturbing. One hopes he is ignorantly repeating misinformation rather than knowingly doing so.
The comparison to Mr. Limbaugh is based on their abilities to play fast and loose with the facts…to make a partisan point.
Sloppy ad hominum attack. Many of the people in this thread are certainly NOT conservative.
Did you read the OP? The OP is respoding to the way MM wrote about his behavior in his diary. I suppose if the janitor or event organizers had online diaries complaining about implied fascist treatment…we might be berating them.
Besides, I was under the impression that after 15 minutes, the janitors asked him to leave, and he started ranting and throwing a tantrum. So THEN they called the cops.
I think they gave him a warning first, no?
I’m a lefty, but not a partisaan. I don’t care WHAT your politics are, they don’t give you a right to act like a jackass!
Besides, I think it makes us look bad. I don’t like Limbaugh because he’s an ass.
Some people on this board identify as conservative. I don’t agree with their politics AT ALL. Yet, I consider them friends of mine, because they’re good people that I disagree with. And there are, likewise, people on the board who identify as liberal, but I can’t stand them because they make jackasses of themselves.
Assholish behavior knows no political idealogy. Period.
No, I only meant that it was redundant to specify those adjectives relative to MM when comparing him to Rush. Like if I said my Yugo was the cheap, shoddy, trashy version of a Cadillac, I am implying that said Caddy is not cheat, shoddy, or trashy.
Yeah and the “rightie” was ad hominem… But, hey, maybe I meant right in terms of correctness rather than political orientation?
You might be, but somehow I doubt it. Call me crazy, but I think MM’s relative celebrity status and political opinion had something to do with it.
Actually, yesterday, I had the privilege of going to a book signing by Ralph Nader at the Borders near my office. He joked with the staff, was polite, and at 9, when the store closed, told the people who were still waiting that he was sorry, but the store was closing, and then he left.
It’s not Moore’s politics I’m objecting to…Nader is on the same side of the political spectrum. It’s just that, at his booksigning, Moore acted like a jerk to the staff, and Nader acted like a gentleman.
Just wondering: does anybody have any support for either side of the story other than the two articles linked?
My personal opinion aside (Jesus Christ, you’ve never encountered hyperbole before?), there’s a fucking lot of people jumping on Moore on the basis of one guy’s word–that could be just be crap. Regardless of your personal beliefs, that’s pathetic.
It’s also entirely possible that Moore brings up valid points in his writings and shows, but acts like a jerk in person(*). After all, not everyone is Cecil Adams.
(* = In contrast to folks like Rush Limbagh and Ann Coulter, who make moronic and inaccurate points, and act like jerks in person )
Now, me, I’m a pretty big Michael Moore fan, but that’s strictly by watching his shows and reading the books. But if Moore did overexaggerate and distort the events at the book signing, then he should be called on it. He should be better than his foes.
Well, actually, Myrr21, there are two independent sources saying Moore’s version is crap – a columnist from the San Diego newspaper, and a Moore fan who was there (his account on the Web is linked earlier in the thread). In addition, a couple of allusions have been made to Moore’s message board, which has been temporarily shut down. Supposedly, Moore’s fans were also saying on that board that Moore’s version of the incident as portrayed in his diary is skewed. However, I didn’t see that board before it was shut down, so I don’t know if that’s accurate.
I got no problem with hyperbole, or exaggeration for effect, or any similar literary device. Seems to me, though, that Moore is going out of his way to cast the wrong light on the events of that night.
Ask yourself this: Why couldn’t Moore write about the night in a positive way? “There were still folks lined up when we had to shut down, so I went outside to sign books. So many people came to the meeting – more than quadruple the number that normally attend such meetings – we couldn’t get everybody inside.” That’s a powerful message – Moore’s book tour is so successful that all expectations are being exceeded. Heck, he could’ve thrown in the deal with the janitor (“We didn’t want to inconvenience this hard-working man, so we left the auditorium”) and been seen as living the ideal of being a hero to the common man.
As it is, though, Moore’s account of the evening, when juxtaposed against that of someone who was there, comes across as being incredibly jerklike.
Ah, re-read my OP. It not only links to the Trib columnist, but to the web page of a self-described Moore fan who confirms the events in question. It also has a link to a thread on Moore’s message boards that confirm the events (though Moore’s message board has been conspicuously taken down right now). There is certainly more than “one guy’s word” in the OP.
