Mini Tuesday April 26 Primaries discussion thread

Free education sounds good on paper and in campaign speeches. Having seen what happens when people get free education firsthand, though, I’m much less excited about that prospect. There is something to be said for betting at least a little bit of your future earnings (or at least something of value) on yourself. If we’re talking about students with a proven track record of academic success and being competitive in the classroom, I’m all for giving those individuals scholarships. But just funding someone while they’re trying to find themselves is not a good idea. In fairness to you, that might not at all be what you’re advocating. But that’s my reaction on this issue.

I cant help but wonder if free college is, for all its scale and ambition, a band-aid solution. Have most of the jobs people do now become so complex that they require someone with a bachelor’s degree? It doesn’t seem like it to me. So what’s really the problem? I think it’s that the kind of blue-collar jobs that once could have sustained a family (and not required a college degree) have been disappearing and are not coming back. The post-war economic environment that made those careers possible was kind of a historical accident. But is the answer to lift everyone into a white collar role by equipping them with degrees? I don’t see how that can work — there aren’t enough of those jobs to go around. Giving everyone a college degree when the market isn’t demanding more employees with degrees only serves to devalue it.

That’s where you go wrong. Getting a post secondary education is still important for decent blue collar jobs. You don’t become a plumbe, an electrician or HVAC expert purely by “working your way up” straight out of high school. Very few people end up running a hotel’s maintenance staff without extra education. The vast majority of half way decent “blue collar jobs” require more education than I guess you assume.

I’m obviously no expert. But I come from a family of tradesmen — I have four cousins who are electricians, aged between 35 and 70, along with a carpenter or two. None of them have college degrees. Do they run a hotel’s maintenance staff? No. But they earn a good living as journeymen or master electricians. Certainly you don’t need a degree in electrical engineering to get into the trades? I can see the value in vocational training, but I don’t think Bernie is talking about paying for people to study nursing or cosmetology or plumbing; he’s talking about a four-year bachelor’s degree.

With all due respect to cosmetologists, they don’t belong in the same sentence as plumbers and nurses. Past that, I have a hard time believing Sanders would say no to free trade school but yes to a free BA in Art History.

I don’t know what Sanders himself thinks of cosmetologists, but regardless, he’s actually made little effort to address the question, and I’m not the only one who finds his stance unclear. I found this Reddit thread (I know) that quotes Sanders on the subject; he agrees CTE is important, but does not say it should be free or identify it as part of his college-for-all plan.

This is an important question, because it’s illustrative of what Sanders thinks the problem really is. Is it that college is too expensive, and thus barred to all but the well-off? Is it that not enough Americans are prepared for demanding, potentially lucrative careers? In other words, what is giving a college education to every one who wants one actually going to fix?

My suspicion is that Sanders is relying on statistics that show college graduates out-earn non-college-graduates, and thus concluding that free college is a shortcut to raising standards of living for lots of people, without considering what flooding the job market with college degrees will do.

Or that tuition is just one barrier to getting an education. If you have to work to help feed the family, that’s a problem. If you didn’t get prepared in high school for college level work, that’s a problem. If you don’t have the motivation to keep going to school, that’s a problem.

Average ACT Scores

English 20.3 (18 indicates college readiness)
Math 20.9 (22 indicates college readiness)
Reading 21.3 (22 indicates college readiness)
Science 20.8 (23 indicates college readiness)
Composite 21.0

Free college tuition is an awesome thing for middle class kids who are above average in their academics. Everyone else has bigger barriers.

They’re all proportional on the Democratic side. Here in PA we also have directly elected convention delegates, but unlike the Republicans they’re all pledged & the ballot indicates to whom (Sanders or Clinton).

We also had 2 constitutional amendments to vote on; raising the judicial retirement age to 75, and abolishing the Philadelphia Traffic Court (the entire state get’s a vote on this).

CNN has called all 5 states for Trump, but only Maryland for Hillary. Connecticut looks way closer than I thought, but need to know where the votes being counted are from.

Delaware, too.

Early on, and it looks like Bernie is dead even in CT, which would be a big boost if he could hold it (about 16% in). Deleware is going Clinton’s way, about 40% of the vote in and they’ve called Maryland for Clinton without a vote being counted…must have been very convincing exit polls…

For the Republicans, looks like the predicted Trump sweep, albeit only two states (CT and DL) have any real vote count, question is if Cruz can finish second anywhere after being beaten so badly in NY. Right now he’s running third in the two states mentioned above.

Still early.

Looking at these small states is kind of funny. I’m used to bigger anchoring cities and now it’s like “But Hartford is still reporting… all… twenty-four… precincts of it…”

I really hope Trump gets to 1237, I think he would be easier to beat. Then again, if he wins, who knows what he will do.

Trump is sweeping all 5 states tonight. I do not know how delegates are apportioned in the GOP, but hopefully he gets close to his goal.

Pennsylvania just called for Clinton, hoping for Connecticut next

If these numbers hold up, it’s an extremely good night for Trump. 60% across the board. That’s just ridiculous, and there’s no way Cruz or Kasich can spin anything out of these results.

It’ll be interesting, and probably hilarious, to see Cruz try.

Cruz losing this badly is worth even Trump winning, in my opinion.

Maryland may be late due to some precincts in Baltimore being allowed to stay open till 9. Perhaps when they start reporting, it’ll be in a flurry from all the ones that closed at 8.

Wonder if Bernie will really remain in the race. Most recent delegate count puts Hillary less than 300 from the magic number while Bernie still needs over 1000. It’s over Bernie.

What is Clinton’s approach to rapprochement? Isn’t that the more important question, as she is the one whose prospects would seem to require it?

Rhode Island is slipping away from Clinton, while Connecticut is still showing a slight Sanders lead. Winning or losing Connecticut by a percentage point doesn’t really matter for Clinton since the delegates will be split, but 4/5 wins will help further drive the stake into Bernie