Just saw this news report about a Mets fan who was critically injured after the game Friday night.
Ah, another Astros fan. I took the day off yesterday to watch the two Texas teams and that godawful 8th in Houston just wouldn’t end. After that I switched to the Rangers and they’re down 7 - 1 in the 4th. FMR.
The debate is certainly hot and heavy, that’s for sure.
Personally I think calling on Price was mind bogglingly stupid. The argument for the move has been made and I just don’t buy it. Using Price in an extremely low importance situation (as demonstrated by the fact he pitched terribly and they still won easily) in such a manner as to prevent him from being used in Game 5, where there may be a high importance situation he could be used in, makes no sense at all. I realize it was a must win game but there’s nothing about using David Price there that helps the team.
If in fact they felt the need to yank Dickey - and there was no apparent reason to do so, but let’s grant that John Gibbons and Pete Walker may have known sometimes we do not - the team had a perfectly decent set of relief pitchers to be used. Liam Hendriks can pitch a few innings, so why not use him? What’s the worst that can happen? He gives up three runs? That’s what David Price actually did.
So now going into Game 5, there’s almost certainly no David Price, or if there is he sure isn’t fresh.
The argument I’m hearing most is favour of this weird move is “well Astros.” Yes, the Astros blew it. But they had FOUR relief pitchers all come in and implode. It had nothing to do with pulling the starter too late and was a perfect storm of ineptitude. There’s nothing AJ Hinch can do if his bullpen just decides tonight’s the night they’re going to be dreadful, and the situation was not at all comparable; if the Jays get to the eighth inning they’re not bringing in Price, they’re bringing in Sanchez.
If it’s 7-6 with two men on and a lefty coming up, sure, you turn to Price. There were no other lefthanded pitchers on the team. 7-1 is time to call on Hendriks or Hawkins or Tepera; if you aren’t going to use those guys when you’re winning by six runs, then I have to ask the question as to *why they are on the playoff roster at all. *
So now instead a kid with about 30 major league starts under his belt will be starting Game 7 and there is no true long reliever available if he struggles. I love Marcus Stroman and I know Price has a bad playoff record but if you didn’t trust Price in the playoffs, well, why did you trade for him and why did you start in in game 1 and why did he pitch in game 4? You DON’T want the league ERA leader starting Game 5?
Of course, now apaprently the Rangers going to start… Cole Hamels in Game 5. I don’t get that either. I know Hamels was really super in the playoffs in 2008 and all, but Yovani Gallardo has started against the Blue Jays three times this year and beaten then every time, and not because he got lucky; he’s beaten them, badly. Why would you prefer to start the lefthander against one of the greatest righthanded hitting lineups in baseball history instead of the righthander who has a demonstrated ability to get Blue Jays out?
I really do sometimes feel like people can’t believe that a knuckleball can be an effective pitch. They view it as a curiosity and a gimmick, not a legitimate pitch.
And heck, maybe that’s accurate to some degree.
But I just don’t get the mixed messages on Dickey and Price. Let’s yank the one even if he’s pitching well and let’s go to the other even though we don’t trust him in a close game because it’s the playoffs.
Yanking Dickey was just nuts. He was doing pretty well and knuckleballers can pitch longer. I mean a total WTF.
Also, am glad that the Mets took out their rage on Dodgers’ pitching. Damn that HR by Cespedes went far, didn’t it?
Gibbons has already said Price will not be available for Game 5. Price, meanwhile, says he’ll be ready. So this could be interesting.
The suspicion is that Gibbons is trying to line up Price for a Game 2 ALCS start, so using him much in game 5 wouldn’t be a great idea (of course, they do have to get to the ALCS for that to matter, so we’ll see what happens when the rubber hits the road)
The Jays two wins in Texas, incidentally, were Toronto’s first ever division series wins. The last time they made the playoffs the division series didn’t exist yet.
Is the Dodger’s pitching staff really *that *bad after Kershaw and Greinke? I understand that Clayton Kershaw is a very, very good pitcher, but he’s going on three day’s rest, and he’s got a big huge playoff monkey riding his back right now…
I’d still rather have Kershaw on 3 days than anyone but Greinke (or a handful of other ace-class starters from other teams) on full rest.
As to the Hamels/Gallardo decision, the best that I can figure is that if you start Gallardo and lose you get more criticism for not starting your ace.
How often does starting your ace on short rest actually work? ISTM the guy gets hit pretty hard most of the time.
Sadly, you’re probably right.
It worked out pretty well for Keuchel and the Astros last week.
Keuchel was on full rest. (354 to 355, too).
Didn’t Keuchel just manage it without issue the other day?
Keuchel pitched on the 2nd, then the 6th. Three day’s rest.
(What does 354 to 355 mean?)
Discuss: If the Cubs win this series, to what extent does that reverse the polarity of the Cubs-Cards dynamic? I think it would be quite significant if the Cubs go on to win the Series, much like how the Red Sox killed the Yankee monster in 2004. Obviously the disparity in overall World Series wins isn’t going away in the foreseeable future, but for the Cubs to go through the Cardinals to win it all would would make it feel like a new era in which the Cards are the have-nots and all that came before is ancient history.
I was surprised to learn that the Cubs are still actually 50 (excuse me, now 51!) games over .500 against the Cards all-time, but the trend has been pretty consistently downward since World War II. About time to turn that around.
Glad the Mets won last night; if they had lost, and then the Cubs lost tonight, I would be in the unthinkable position of rooting for the Dodgers to close it out in 4 in order to get a decent start time for our Game 5. I think TBS is making a mistake in giving the coastal series the primetime slots; obviously there are many more people in (NY+LA) than in (Chi+StL), but I question that there are more NL baseball fans.
Ah, my bad, thought you were talking about NY ->KC. Of course now I remember all the 500000 words people wrote about whether Keuchel could handle 3 days’ rest.
The history is pretty bad. According to this,
It worked for the Yankees in 2009, when they basically used a three-man rotation of Sabathia, Pettite, and A.J. Burnett. But it’s hit and miss (usually miss).
They are this year. We just used our number 3 and 4 pitcher in yesterday’s game and we don’t really have a #5.
Of course, that wasn’t how it was supposed to be. McCarthy and Ryu would be a great 3 and 4, but neither was healthy enough to pitch this year, so we are stuck with what we’ve got.