Moral dilemma--what do I do?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

WARNING–This is very long! Sorry!
Here’s the story.

My husband and I are friends with a couple who have had their fair share of marriage problems. When they got married, she (we’ll call her Mindy) had a daughter by a different man. Her new husband (we’ll call him Earl) doesn’t much care for kids but that’s okay because he is not going to be “daddy” to this little girl anyway–he’s just married to her mom (his view.) They’ve been married for a little over four years. In that time, they have had a little boy (he says he didn’t want him and she got pregnant on purpose despite that fact.) All this is just background.

Anyway, about six or seven months ago, they started having more problems than usual (He thinks it is unreasonable for her to expect him to stay home and not go out drinking/partying/doing drugs/etc. more than one day a week. They tried to compromise and say that he could go out and do this stuff four days out of the week if he stayed home three–so she could see him a day or two and so maybe she could go out one night–but he said that was unacceptable and so they settled on her getting one night out and him getting six.) and Earl started staying out all night, crashing at friends’ houses etc.

Well, during these forays into night life, he met a girl, Carrie, that he became friends with. Of course, then they started sleeping together. When my hubby asked him about it, Earl told him that he and Mindy had “Pretty much separated” and they were probably going to get a divorce. After a couple months, Earl and Mindy had gotten back together (Earl and Carrie called it off), bought a house together and seemed to be working on their problems. Mindy was upset with my hubby and myself because we didn’t tell her about Carrie. My hubby’s defense is that as far as we knew, they were separated and she pretty much understands that.

Okay, to make a long story short (too late!), Earl has started hanging out with Carrie again–“Just as friends!” Problem is, Earl has been helping Carrie with her early (4am) paper route to “make extra money” but he isn’t telling Mindy where he’s going or what he’s doing. He did this yesterday and he told his wife that he was at our house. He also used his truck to go on the paper route with Carrie and left her car in our drive way.

I want this to stop. I will not be a party to someone cheating on his wife. Hubby thinks I shouldn’t tell Mindy because we don’t know if anything but “friends” is going on between Earl and Carrie. I say, it doesn’t make any difference because if he is staying with his wife, he shouldn’t be hanging around the woman he was screwing behind her back when they were separated. Also, if we keep quiet and something is going on, what if Mindy happens to drive by our house looking for Earl and she sees Carrie’s car?

So, after all this mess, (assuming anyone is actually still reading this) should I say something to Mindy? If so, what do I say? Should I just say something like, “Earl is hanging out with Carrie again–thought you should know.”? Since my hubby and myself are the only ones who know about this, it will be obvious to Earl that his best friend squealed on him to his wife and my hubby and Earl have been best friends since second grade.

HELP!!!

2

IMHO I think you should tell Mindy that Earl is helping Cindy with the paper route. You don’t need to imply that anything is going on, but because of the past history I think she has the right to know. I understand that Earl may be upset with you and your husband for this, but it is his own fault for not being honest with his wife. If I was in Mindy’s situation I would want to know and be able to make the decision on whether to confront my husband or not.
I know that you are in a very rough situation and I wish you the best. The best thing I can offer is: if you were Mindy what would you want your friends to do in the same situation? Good luck with this horrible decision. My thoughts are with you.

3

Wow, Beth, that’s a tough one. On the one hand, Mindy has a right to know. Especially when Earl is repeating past bad behaviour. On the other hand, however, if you do tell Mindy, there is a chance that she could blame you for a possible break-up. But if you don’t tell her, she might find out and be even more mad at you for not telling her again. Quite the pickle, indeed.
The one thing that seems even worse, is that he is lying to Mindy about it. Also, in an already delicate relationship, he’s decided to push it a little more. It seems as though he’s almost tempting the fates here. He doesn’t seem to have any remorse for what he did the last time, and it seems like it could happen again.
I don’t know, Beth. If a friend of mine were being cheated on, I would tell them. But the problem is that Earl is also a friend (from the sounds of it, a very close one to your husband). Maybe your husband should sit down and have a chat with Earl, telling him what’s what. Point out where this could lead. This is just a suggestion. I’m sorry if it doesn’t help.

4

This is an easy one. Tell her right away. This guys a clod and the sooner she gets away from him, the better off she’ll be. Even if she blames you, she’s still better off.

It seems fairly obvious, from what you’ve described, that ‘Earl’ aint in to the whole matrimony bit anyway. Monogomy, responsibility, and appropriate behavior appear to be too burdensome for him. He’ll thank you for it. (not right away, mind you)

5

Yes, definitely tell her. If she blames you for the possible breakup, you should take it as a compliment. This guy seems, well, like a jerk. (Actually, I think the technical term is dipshit.) No offense meant; he just doesn’t have the maturity, responsibility, integrity, or any of the other factors required to make a marriage work.

6

You know I love ya and respect you to the max…

Have you ever heard the saying “Kill the messenger”?

IMO, I prefer to try to stay out of the middle of domestic issues, especially when it involves a friend(s).

Just as background, my stepfather(and mother for that matter, sheesh), held back the fact that I was being cheated on by one of my exes. I hated them at the time(OK, for a short while, and not really hate either :)), but I think my feelings would have been more hurt, and possibly the relationship with my parents strained, if they’d told me.

So, IMO, she needs to find out for herself. If need be, set something up so she finds out “accidentally” for herself, but I wouldn’t tell her. Bad things can come of it.

Best of luck!

-Sam

7

You need to tell your husband, in a calm, reasonable way that if it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck. When he reminds you that Earl is his best friend, point out that Earl may be his friend but you are his wife. Tell him exactly how uncomfortable you are with the situation. Ask him, in a calm, reasonable, loving way to decide who he wants pissed off at him: You or Earl? Be prepared for an answer you might not want to hear. Base further decisions on the answer to that simple question. Remember, you are not being unreasonable when you say that you are not comfortable with being a party to cheating. You have a right to expect your husband to be supportive of you.

This assumes that your real motive is not based on “getting” Earl because you don’t like him.

8

Tell 'er.
You need to if you don’t want to come off looking like you’re aiding and abetting a scoundrel.

9

I’d say you have to break the news.

Neutrality is all well and good but Earl threw your neutrality away when he started using you as an excuse and dropping his car off at your place overnight. You’re in it now whether you want to be or not.

If you truly think something is going on then I think you have a responsibility to intervene at this point. If you don’t you’re simply supporting Earls bad habits and bringing down Mindy.

Sucky position to be in. Wish there was more I could do.

10

My immediate response to your story, Beth, was to wonder why you didn’t use the obvious pseudonym for Earl, which would surely have to be “Dick.”

Anyway, on to the dilemma – I try never to get involved in stuff like this. In my experience the wronged spouse just ends up pissed at the people who told him/her about the affair. So, you were, IMO, correct not to tell Mindy about Carrie and Earl-Dick the previous time. The situation, that time, was none of your business and you were better off staying out of it. This time is a little different. By making you and your husband party to his activities with Carrie, Earl-Dick has forced your involvement. I think you should tell Earl-Dick that he can no longer use your home as a parking lot for his girlfriend’s car, and that you will no longer lie to Mindy to cover up for him. Then, if Mindy does call looking for Earl-Dick, tell her the truth, “Oh, he’s helping Carrie with her paper route.” She probably won’t call, because Earl-Dick will move his operations to another location. But, at least you won’t be directly involved. Eventually, I suppose Mindy will find out about the whole mess and they will split up. At that time, she will probably be mad at you for not telling her everything you knew. Oh well, you can’t please everyone, and, since he and your husband have been friends since the second grade it sounds like you’re gonna be stuck with custody of Earl-Dick anyway. BTW, I think you should ask Carrie now whether or not she wants to be notified when you find out that Earl-Dick is cheating on her.

11

Jess is exactly on target.

The problems between those two are their business. What IS of your concern is that this guy is using you and your property, expecting you to lie. In clear terms it’s:
“you may NOT park your car/truck in our driveway to leave an impression to ANYONE that you’re here when you’re not. If ANYONE calls to ask if you’re here I will tell the truth.”

I’ve always made it a standard practice that I will NOT lie for some one else. Too many possibilities for nonsense.

As for folks who say “tell her”. I was the cheated on spouse. I would NOT have expected folks to tell me what they “knew”, but would have been FURIOUS if they’d allowed him to use them in the manner you’ve described.

12

WARNING…long opinion

firstly, ((((((((((Evilbeth)))))))))))…talk about between a rock and a hard place…sheeesh.

I would like to give you another side of the proverbial coin, and share the why’s…

background:

last summer, Dewt and I rented a room to one of his/our best friends (he became unemployed and we supported him, did laundry, fed him, etc…) …shortly after this, Dewt commenced his summer-long affair…‘friend’ knew about it…but didn’t want to hear anything about it, would not let Dewt use him as a sounding board, he never condoned Dewt’s actions, but refused to be a party to them…he also told Dewt that Dewt had to tell me about bimbo or he himself would…yes, ‘friend’ even met bimbo on occaision (she was a client), she was even here in our home and he lied to me about it at her request…affair started july, Dewt told me in October finally.

getting to the point now:

Evilbeth, I believe in many respects, you are damned if you do, damned if you don’t…but your OP specifies ‘Morals’…I don’t believe that I would have been as angry with ‘friend’ if he had told me…or even strongly hinted…feeling like a fool is worse…feeling you’ve been made to look like a fool is worse…I mean, the situation would have come to a head (lol…puns…heheheh) about 2 months sooner if he had simply opened his mouth…instead, he watched the disintigration of our marriage and stood by while I blamed myself for it…

I could not believe that ‘friend’ would lie to me about bimbo…a friend whom I had fed, clothed, paid for prescriptions, housed his girlfriend, etc…the fact that he knew and never told, that he took a supposed ‘moral’ standpoint with Dewt but only went halfway on the moral scale wounded me to my very soul…don’t misunderstand, I was more angry and disappointed in my H for cheating and lying, but considering what H was doing, his lying about it was par for course…

end result:

Dewt and I are re-building our marriage from scratch (unlike Earl, Dewt is not, in his core being, a dipshit…he did a shitty thing, but is still one of the best human beings I know…just a crappy faithful huubby).

‘friend’ moved out in october and now says that the guilt he feels due to his inaction and betrayal of our friendship will be with him forever, and that he would do things differently if he could turn back time…he can’t believe he decided to protect a lying bimbo and not protect the friend who took him in…

we barely speak…

Evilbeth, only you can make the decision as to what you are going to do…but I was being cheated on, and I was not a moron, just couldn’t put my finger on what was wrong…but I would have paid a billion dollars to have had at least a hint…and then been better able to protect myself, and I would not have lost a friend in the process…a friendship that involves truth can most often be salvaged and made stronger, but even a lie by omission is still a lie to the betrayed.

psst…can you spare a sig?

13

I agree with Jess also. Tell Earl that he can’t use your house/driveway as an excuse to spend time with another woman. As for Mindy, she really needs to know what is going on. Try to find some way to tell her! He sounds like a loser to me and she doesn’t need a man like that, no one does. The sooner she gets away from him the better.

It sounds like he’s not a help to her with the kids, he parties all the time, spends nights away from home, cheated on her and is continuing to do so even now and using you as his alibi! Mindy may be upset for awhile but eventually she’ll be glad that you told her. Think of it like this… what if you don’t tell her and Earl continues to see Carrie, or finds another woman, and ends up giving Mindy AIDS or something. That may be a worse case scenario but it can/does happen. You may end up feeling guilty for not telling her if something like that happens.

If it were happening to one of my good friends I would tell them and if it were happening to me, I would want to know. Just my opinion. Good luck! Keep us updated.

14

As Ann Landers has said… MYOB.

If Mindy is stupid enough to ‘allow’ her man non-family time 6 nights a week, then she’s an enabler. She know what’s going on and just doesn’t want to face the truth. The man’s a scum ball. There’s no such thing as ‘being friends’ with someone you used to cheat on your spouse with. Any person that truly respects their marriage wouldn’t even try to pull that crap. I’m guessing Mindy has low self esteem, and for her to blame either you or your husband for not keeping her informed is bullshit. To be totally fair, though, if she asks you information then tell her the truth. If Earl asks you to ‘cover’ for him, then tell him as politely as possible to “Fuck Off”.

Being totally honest and minding your your own business is NEVER a bad plan.

15

Agree with Jess. Tell Earl you’re not going to cover his lies. Don’t park in your driveway. Mindy probably suspects, anyway. You probably don’t have to tell her, just don’t back up Earl’s lies.

16

Tell Earl to get his vehicle out of your driveway. Personally, I don’t feel obliged to lie for anyone. If she asks what’s up, tell her what you know. Despite what trauma it might cause, I’d rather hear about it sooner than find out myself later. I wouldn’t tell her anything I didn’t know for absolutely sure, so stick to the facts. (duh, Zero…)

Don’t get stuck in the middle, you end up with everyone shooting at you. Get out fast.

17

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by evilbeth *
Her new husband (we’ll call him Earl) doesn’t much care for kids but that’s okay because he is not going to be “daddy” to this little girl anyway–he’s just married to her mom (his view.)

Well, he’s going to be ‘step-daddy’ to this girl which is no less important.

**Anyway, about six or seven months ago, they started having more problems than usual (He thinks it is unreasonable for her to expect him to stay home and not go out drinking/partying/doing drugs/etc. more than one day a week. They tried to compromise and say that he could go out and do this stuff four days out of the week if he stayed home three–so she could see him a day or two and so maybe she could go out one night–but he said that was unacceptable and so they settled on her getting one night out and him getting six.) and Earl started staying out all night, crashing at friends’ houses etc. **

This is not a marriage. Earl is obviously short on morals. Bottom line; when you make a decision to become a family man (woman) the bachelor life is over.
Okay, to make a long story short (too late!), Earl has started hanging out with Carrie again–“Just as friends!” Problem is, Earl has been helping Carrie with her early (4am) paper route to “make extra money” but he isn’t telling Mindy where he’s going or what he’s doing. He did this yesterday and he told his wife that he was at our house. He also used his truck to go on the paper route with Carrie and left her car in our drive way.

“Just as friends”??? I doubt that very much. The line that separated ‘friends’ has already been crossed. I think that’s a line that’s very difficult to uncross, and in a case where there’s a person like ‘Earl’, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I want this to stop. I will not be a party to someone cheating on his wife.

Bravo!

Hubby thinks I shouldn’t tell Mindy because we don’t know if anything but “friends” is going on between Earl and Carrie.

Give me a break here. It’s ‘Earl’ we’re talking about. The guy who thinks marriage carries no responsibility, the guy who thinks he has no obligation to his step daughter, or even to his own son. The guy who coined the term ‘pretty much separated’.

** I say, it doesn’t make any difference because if he is staying with his wife, he shouldn’t be hanging around the woman he was screwing behind her back when they were separated.**

Bingo.

** Also, if we keep quiet and something is going on, what if Mindy happens to drive by our house looking for Earl and she sees Carrie’s car?**

If so, you will be held accountable for your part in Earl’s scheme. Wether you condone his behaviour or not, you will be treated as if you do.

**So, after all this mess, (assuming anyone is actually still reading this) should I say something to Mindy? If so, what do I say? Should I just say something like, “Earl is hanging out with Carrie again–thought you should know.”? Since my hubby and myself are the only ones who know about this, it will be obvious to Earl that his best friend squealed on him to his wife and my hubby and Earl have been best friends since second grade. **

Stepping off the moral high road for just a sec, I’d say give your hubby the chance to talk to Earl, or beat some sense into him. The problem is much deeper than a lousy paper route. Maybe since they have been friends for so long, your hubby might be able to make a difference, wake this ‘Earl’ up to the reality of family life and all that entails.

Failing that, I’d say it’s up to you. Earl is engaged in some pretty deceitful behaviour and by standing by and allowing it to happen, you would be part of the problem. Our world already has too many people willing to look the other way wilst injustices are being committed.

If I were you, I’d be pretty pissed at Earl for putting me in this position.

Paper route. Pushaw.

18

I just hope, for your sake, eb, that your husband and Earl’s friendship is not a case of “birds of a feather…”

19

It’s a hard decision, isn’t it? Do tell her though.

Since you are not completely sure he IS fooling around with Carrie, tell Mindy that something is going on, but you are not sure exactly what.

Tell her the same thing you told us. That you are uncomfortable with him possibly using you and your husband as a cover, and you want no part of whatever he is doing.

Mindy will thank you for it, maybe not that day, but at some point she will.

Aenea

20

It’s a hard decision, isn’t it? Do tell her though.

Since you are not completely sure he IS fooling around with Carrie, tell Mindy that something is going on, but you are not sure exactly what.

Tell her the same thing you told us. That you are uncomfortable with him possibly using you and your husband as a cover, and you want no part of whatever he is doing.

Mindy will thank you for it, maybe not that day, but at some point she will.

Aenea