As I have written before, my sister-in-law lives with us to temporarily help her out (2.5 years ago). I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this but she doesn’t understand why all of he other roommates in the past have kicked her out. Part of the reason is that she has no clue how roommates are supposed to act. A lot of minor things like she doesn’t help out around the house a lot or she comes home and talks about her day and never asks you about yours. The one that pisses me off out of all of the little things is that Mrs. Cad always makes sure she had a cake and card for her birthday and in two years my SIL has never gotten her a card or even said “Happy Birthday”.
As I pointed out in this thread (with much controversy) she simply refuses to not be poor. She works at Walmart because they like her - like her so much that after 8 years she is up to $11/hour and they cut her hours a few months ago. She refuses to look for a second job and although her ex makes a lot more than he made 5 years ago when a judge let him set what child support he wanted to pay and being given referrals to women legal aid services she always has a reason of why she can’t go to the courthouse this month to file for more support.
So now she unilaterally decided i.e. without telling us beforehand that she’s going to short us on rent and make it up “whenever”. This is starting to cause friction between Mrs. Cad and me as her attitude is that she’s not going to let an 8 year old (our niece) be thrown into the street even though we’re being taken advantage of. My reply is that she is not our responsibility - we are not her parents - and if our SIL can’t take care of her own daughter that it is the dad’s responsibility to take over OR the SIL can pull her head out of her ass and at least make an effort to take charge of her own life and stop leaving it up to others to always bail her and her daughter out of her poverty choices.
It’s a sucky situation, and I agree that SIL needs to take responsibility but what strikes me is the attitude towards your niece.
She has been living with you for the past 2.5 years, since she was five and a half years old. You don’t mind the thought of her ending up in a bad situation? I agree she is not your responsibility, but it seems rather callous at the same time, to care so little about her after she has been living with you for years. Maybe it’s more your tone, than that the actual outcome would be bad for her?
It sounds to me more like that the OP does not actively wish anyone any harm here, he’s just frustrated that the situation continues to drag out, and the SIL doesn’t pursue the options that might help improve her life.
If she were badgering the ex for more child support OR going to college OR interviewing for a better-paid job OR taking more responsibility about cleaning and cooking and being a good roommate, he would probably be much less disappointed in the status quo, because it would at least SEEM like she was trying to fix things.
That’s just what I though reading the OP. The frustration level is high and there’s no change in sight. Cad’s wife should be doing more about this too, any little thing just to make him feel less put upon.
More on the niece.
There is another variable at work here. Since our daughter died, Mrs. Cad has seemed to latch on to our niece almost as a surrogate daughter. Not a replacement but … well it’s hard to explain and obviously that’s something that I would never bring up and something I don’t think she realizes. So the argument of, “We are not her parents.” is one she intellectually agrees with but emotionally … I just don’t know. Mrs. Cad also argues that our niece will end up in the streets with her mom and my point that her dad lives 40 miles away, has a nice house and plenty of money (in part because his child support is so low) means that our niece is not without options. That argument never goes anywhere.
And for Sarabellum, it’s not that my SIL doesn’t improve her life (Although that’s a big issue), it’s that she doesn’t realize that it’s not other people’s responsibility to suffer the consequences of her decisions. She tells her dad that he has to give her gas money to visit since she doesn’t have any or like in our case just short us and then ask/tell Mrs. Cad that she’s doing it after the fact. Remembering my thread on the poor mentality, I’m realizing that “I’m out of money.” means “It’s your responsibility to help me out.” and not, “So I’d better do something different.”
I’m so sorry about your daughter, and I see the complexity of the situation. I should imagine the idea of kicking out her sister would be unbearably hard for your wife, when considering your niece. At the same time, that could be motivating her to keep her sister completely dependent (not intentionally, but in with that as outcome).
I’m still somewhat curious about your position though. You mention your wife’s feelings, but not your own. You don’t care about the little girl? (Again, I completely agree that her mother needs to take responsibility etc.) I’m just wondering, if you get the outcome that they move out into a worse situation, do you really end up with what you want? It’s clear that might make your wife unhappy, but how would you feel?
My thoughts are that it might not be a bad thing if the dad takes in the daughter until mom gets her shit together; it’s not like she will be neglected.
Here’s the bottom line, I take care of my family. It’s not my job to take care of hers. Now if there were no other option that would be different but if my SIL can’t take care of her daughter then its her ex’s (the girl’s dad) responsibility to take over - not ours.
Here’s another part of the equation. I had to take on a second job which in part subsidizes my SIL’s vastly reduced part of the rent and bills. So in effect I’m the one working 12 hours a day so that she can stay at her $11/hr x 32 hr week job that she’s comfortable with and she doesn’t even see that as helping her out. According to her we should give her free rent and utilities because she’s poor.
This is what you need to show your wife. Break down the amount of hours you and she are working to put in money to support the SIL and niece, versus what the SIL is doing and the options she could have to get more money.
That being said, I personally think you’re probably fucked, regardless, and I’m sorry about that.
Your wife doesn’t want to kick out her niece.
Your SIL will be poisoning the well with her daughter any time you two won’t fork over SIL’s every desire, about how much money you have and how cruel you are not to support “family” who are poor.
If your niece ends up with her dad, double down on the previous statement.
What does she do with her money? Is there low-income/rent-subsidized housing in your area? Heck, she probably qualifies for programs that help people buy a home.
She’s got a good thing going, and the only thing that would motivate her to leave is for the good thing to stop being so good. If you’re doing anything extra for her, like buying her favorite food, including her in your entertainment/outings, buying their clothes and toiletries, stop doing it.
But the first thing is to convince your wife that you’re not doing her sister any favors. She needs to be on her own, and that’s not impossible. She’s got a steady job and she gets child support. Many people get along on a lot less than that.
I think that this is the key to the situation. SIL seems to be happy with things the way they are. And why shouldn’t she be? She’s got a couple of patsies who are subsidizing her.
My husband and I had to cut off money to a couple of family members who could NOT understand that our resources weren’t limitless, and that the reason we HAD resources to share was because we budgeted things, and didn’t buy stupid shit only to discard it in a month or two. They quit talking to us for a while, and they still don’t call as often as they used to, but somehow they are managing to scrape by without having us bail them out every two or three months.
That’s what I’m thinking, too - your wife does not want her eight year old niece to leave, in my opinion. This is one hell of a mess because of that - the rest is kind of moot after that.
Can you talk to your wife in those terms - that you understand if she doesn’t want her surrogate daughter (which is what she probably is) to leave, but the situation is more complicated than that?
I agree that the girl’s father is probably a better choice, but two things strike me:
You’ve dodged the question on how you feel about your niece.
You don’t seem to be including your niece in “my family.”
I’m not sure if “hers” is “my wife’s” or “my sister-in-law’s,” but I’m going to argue with you. It IS your job to take care of your sister-in-law’s daughter. You don’t have as much responsibility as the girl’s parents, but I think your niece’s welfare and a path to sustainable happiness should be a high priority for you, proportionate to her parents’ ability to provide. In other words, it’s not your fault that a child was born to crap parents, but it’s your responsibility to step in solely by virtue of marrying into the family.
I realize that this is a culturally biased answer and you will probably disagree, but I felt it needed saying.
I was there with my brother in law. He was married to a woman who didn’t want to work - she wanted to run a photography business, she wanted to go to school, she wanted to - the list was never ending and she never saw it through… and when they got foreclosure notification - as they were getting divorced - we bailed him out. Its been a decade, my brother in law passed away of cancer, and I still hold resentment over her getting to follow her muse, while I worked full time and raised kids and helped pay for it.
They’re not “crap” parents. Dad’s paying child support and mom has a steady job.
The OP and his wife have done more than many would be willing or able to do. It’s up to mom to step up and stop taking advantage. She’s setting a rotten example for the kid. On the other hand, the OP and his wife are setting a good example, so maybe it’ll even out.
The OP has said he’s had to take a second job. That the SIL sees this and refuses to pay her share is pretty damn selfish.
Mom has been modelling less-than-ideal choices for a few years now, and is now failing the basic obligation of providing shelter. According to the OP, Dad’s child support is suspiciously low, and he’s not being proactive in taking care of his child. Maybe this is adequate parenting in your book, but it’s less so in mine.
Other than that, I agree with everything you said.
I had to think about this so that I wouldn’t be accused of rigging the question. All I can ask is your forgiveness in trying to explain a complicated “familial” relationship.
My “SIL” is actually an very close family friend that Mrs Cad has known since SIL was 8 years old. We don’t think of family in terms of genetics. My stepdad is to me my mom’s husband but to my son he is grandpa. Me stepson is my son and my son’s brother - never half-brother. So Mrs Cad has always been close to “SIL” and has felt a kinship with her after both having a bad first marriage by admittedly making a bad choice and both being single moms. Compound this with SIL (and Mrs Cad until recently) believing they were sisters in a previous life and you get family that’s not really family. I go along with it because honestly it’s not worth creating friction over but if anyone thinks that we owe something to her and my “niece” because of shared chromosomes - that’s not quite accurate.
Thanks for explaining that: it clarifies things perfectly. I agree, it’s a really difficult relationship to describe. I’ve experienced it, and I’ll just say that I’m now 100% on board with the idea that SIL can be your wife’s family but not yours, and that is completely reasonable.
Once someone moves in, it’s very difficult to get them out with relationships intact. What I would suggest is setting her up in an apartment (including paying deposit and first month’s rent: this is cheaper in the long run) and then NOT LETTING HER MOVE BACK IN when she is evicted. Honestly I think that’s the best way to get her out of your house without harming your own relationship with your wife.
Just talked to Mrs Cad about the frustration I’m feeling over the situation. Same response: I’m the asshole and SIL gets a free pass. We think SIL has very high level autism and I (me Cad) is paying for her to go get diagnosed because SIL was diagnosed with aphasia like 25 years ago. So yet again, Mrs. Cad plays the disability card*. I had enough of “You have a degree in special ed and you always ignore her disability.” I had enough of that shit and said, “I know autism is not my specialty, but I know enough that when someone with autism does something that is not socially acceptable, you don’t ignore it and enable it. You explicitly teach them the proper behavior. In this case, you tell her that when someone lends her money with specific terms (pay me back on this day), you don’t short them, wait for them to bring it up and say you’ll pay whenever.” That ended the phone call and not in a good way because it runs counter to Mrs Cad I’m an expert in everything mode that she was in. I’m thinking of dragging MC’s ass to a psychologist my son sees (an expert in Aspergers and Autism) and ask flat out what to do if a person with high-level autism does things that are culturally unacceptable if you help by ignoring it or teaching it.
She is such an enabler. When any of our kids has an issue it always, “He’s only <fill in age here>” … irregardless of whether or not a <insert age here> year old should know not to do stupid shit. E.g. “He’s only 19.” doesn’t fly with me when I drive across LA to pick his ass up and sit for over an hour because he didn’t answer his phone after calling to be picked up “in 10 minutes”.
