First off, for anyone who doesn’t know who the hell Mowaffak Al-Rubaie actually is, here is a brief Wiki article on him:
Maybe someone who is really knowledgeable about the in’s and out’s of the labyrinthine mazes of Iraqi politics will wander into the thread, but I’m unsure how much Mowaffak actually speaks for the ‘people of Iraq, the parliament and the Council of Representatives and the government of Iraq’, blah blah blah. I’m guessing…not that much over all.
However, the question from the OP is “I’d like to hear other’s opinions, but I don’t believe there’s a chance in Hell Cheney won’t get his bases, no matter what the Iraqis want or say.”
I would say that ‘Chaney’ will most likely get his bases, yes. I don’t know how opposed the Iraqi government actually is to this idea, since I don’t know that there IS a unified ‘Iraqi government’ to actually have a solid opinion one way or the other. The Iraqi government, such as it is, seems to waffle back and forth between factions that want the US to stay (for a time), those who want us to leave (sometime vaguely in the future) and some who want us out right now. I’m also unsure whether this statement by Mowaffak is for local public consumption or a real statement of intent.
Now that we have discerned the legitimacy of the story and corresponding video linked to in my original post, do you think there will be any ramifications, or fallout, or any impact at all because of Al-Rubaie’s statements?
I am very concerned about our long-term presence in the ME in general, and Iraq specifically. Permanent bases would mean not only are we not leaving any time soon, we’re not leaving period, and any autonomy and soveregnty Iraq has will be defined and dictated by the US and its interests. I don’t believe Al-Rubaie’s statements will do much of anything to stop the continued rape of the Iraqi people and the plunder of Iraq’s natural resources, but I’m glad he was willing to give his honest, untempered opinion, and I’m hopeful he’s actually speaking for the entire government/parliament.
I suspect you need look no further than the US Embassy which may very well be completed in Baghdad, at an estimated cost of 3.76 godzillabucks. Were we concerned for the tender sensibilities of our subjects, we might have opted for a more modest and circumspect presence. Or we might have been alerted by the continuing antipathy of the Iraqi people in general, who, as cited above, remain suspicious of our motives and our intentions.
Of course, we did nothing of the sort. The embassy is a solid gold steam locomotive, powered by burning Benjamins, chugging away with a full head of steam, waiting only for tracks to be lain.
Two bits says that when we finally say “Fuck this shit!” and walk away, the site will become the Iranian Embassy.
Or burned to the ground by cheering mobs. Or turned into a memorial/museum for American aggression and tyranny in Iraq; that would be rather fitting actually. And they’d have no shortage of exhibits.
I for one think its cute that this Iraqi actually believes that they have any say in deciding whether or not we have permanent bases in Iraq. Ah, the idealism of youth.
:dubious: I’ll be a little more impressed with your critique of al-Rubaie’s English when I hear you deliver a “strong but poetic” speech in Arabic. Churchill, of course, had the advantage of composing his speeches in his native tongue.
All report the same quote regarding bombing of Iran. The quote was attributed to the Security Minister addressing a small conference at the Nixon Center. (no doubt a hot bed of loony leftists.)
I assume this is somehow aimed at me. My question (honest engine) is…what has this got to do with what I was saying? Whether or not a majority of Iraqi’s want an immediate US pull out has little to do with whether or not the Iraq GOVERNMENT favors an immediate US pullout. Do you have any indications that the Iraqi government favors this? Or has requested an immediate US pullout?
AFAIK, the majority of US citizens seem to favor a fairly quick US pullout…do you think this is going to translate into US troops boarding planes for home soon? Honest engine?
You think ‘big fat no’ sounds poetic in Arabic? Perhaps you are right.
I’m unsure what point you think you are making with this.
Don’t know about “immediate pullout”, not talking about “immediate pullout”. Talking about permanent bases. And the cite clearly shows that the Iraqi people don’t want foreign troops on their soil, from which I leap to the conclusion that they don’t favor bases for those troops either.
As for the Iraqi governments position on permanent bases, we have a CNN quote above, courtesy of the “loony left”. Now, I don’t know as I’d suggest that Mr. Rubaie is the major player in the Iraqi government, such as it is, but I’m betting he doesn’t take the bus to work. Not even a cab. I’m guessing armored limo, fifteen-twenty security guards.
All of which makes the atmosphere for permanent bases untenable.
Not soon enough, no. But eventually, yes, I think it will. Now, it may be that permanent bases will be built, but we won’t be the occupants.
Like many powerful and important Iraqis, he has quite a good command of English, but probably not so much familiarity with the colloquial. Someone told him that “big fat NO!” means “emphatic” in American. At least he did not insist that his hovercraft was full of eels.
Just a minor irritation at argumentum ad hominem. Please ignore it. The cites were meant to show that the phrase was attributed to the discussion on the 4th by several news sources. Subsequent attributions, by whomever may in fact be simply miss attributions in time. The fact of such error is a valid debate element, the purported bias of an unidentified source is almost, but not quite an admission that no factual refutation is available.