What on earth has Ali done to be called one of the greatest heros of our time?
And is he a credible voice for tolerance, after he spent most of the 60s and 70s calling his opponents (Frazier, Foreman) “gorillas” and such?
Well, the “gorilla” thing was specifically in reference to Joe Frazier, and I dunno about you, but everybody where I live understood perfectly well that it was just rhetoric, like WWF “styling”.
http://espn.go.com/boxing/columns/graham/1210782.html
Who says he’s one of the “greatest heroes of our time”? Is that a quote from somebody?
Will Smith said it about Ali when introducing him at the tribute special tonight.
Now, I suppose we could understand that hyperbole could be expected:
- Smith is doing pre-flack for his Ali movie;
- Ali was there to express his views about Islam being a religion of peace;
- Ali is somewhat admirable for the way he dealt with refusal to serve in Vietnam – he did the time, unlike many, many, others who cynically evaded the draft, even though Ali probably would have just done “good will” tours during his hitch.
But, given the heroism demonstrated this past week, Ali is hardly a hero.
And the “gorilla” and “Uncle Tom” stuff was below the belt. Way below the belt. And he used it on Foreman too – watch “When We Were Kings” – same stuff about Foreman before the Rumble in the Jungle.
Not to hijack, but…
Did anyone else think it was in extremely poor taste for Will Smith to be not-so-subtly plugging his upcoming flic by appearing with Ali?
Bleh.
Yes.
However, one could argue that he has merely developed a friendship with Ali as part of doing the movie, and isn’t really plugging it.
Let’s face it, one could argue that all of the actors doing the story narrations are merely getting visibility for their latest projects. But I really think they care about the issue here.
I would agree, but none of the other actors seemed to be showcasing their projects in any way. But yes, you’re right, all appear to be genuinely concerned with the tragedy. I guess I blame the producers more than the players. (Hell, it’s usually their fault anyway - I know from personal experience.)
Schpl,
You left out: “And now Muhammed Ali no longer is a member of NoI, but rather is Sunni Muslim.”
Ali is a national hero because he’s got a disease that makes him shake and we all feel sorry for him. You can’t criticize him anymore because they will say “stop picking on him, he’s a feeble old man”.
Sorry, but I don’t get it either. He was a boxer. He dodged the draft. He changed his name.
Why is he a hero again? Maybe he’s a good guy and is solid in his principles and beliefs, but that’s not very unusual. As Chris Rock said, let’s not give people credit for doing what they are supposed to do. “He’s a good guy, he’s never been in prison. Your not supposed to go to prison you stupid mother fucker!”
To call Ali a “hero” is pushing it, but I don’t think anyone should bother to point out any “below the belt” shots Ali may have verbally taken on his opponents. It’s part of building up a lot of tension to make the match bigger. Besides, it was part of Ali’s character.
“I don’t like George Foreman! He talks too much!”
Great stuff.
No fan I of draft dodgers in general, but I would suggest that then term doesn’t fairly apply to Ali. He didn’t “dodge” - he stood up, declared his opposition, and accepted the legal penalty for the action. That’s not heroism - it’s the minimum standard expected for a citizen - but it’s not “dodging” either.
- Rick
I guess that could be a semantical argument, he didn’t run or hide, he accepted the punishment. I wasn’t saying it to criticise him for it, just pointing out a big moment in his life. Doesn’t matter to me really.
Did Ali sacrifice his life to fight four hijackers in order to save others?
Did Ali put his helicopter between Calley’s troops and Vietnamese civilians?
Did Ali threaten to give up the throne of Peter to lead the Solidarity movement in Poland?
No! Once and for all, I wish people would realize that sports heroes are on the lowest rung of herodom of all!
Mumblegrumble…
-Ben
The way I understand it is that Ali originally went in when he was first drafted and flunked the intelligence test. (and he is not dumb) Then when they lowered the minimum requirements , he was drafted and that is when he refused to go in. I wonder how much of that was from his advisors.
The author of a new biography on ALI likened him to Chance the Gardener in “Being There” because people assumed many things about him. In reality he was just a great athlete (who lost more than once) and a natural entertainer. (the guy IS funny)
I was glad to see him speaking out against the violence practiced by his fellow Muslims. But a hero? I think a hero is someone who has a CHOICE to do something good and makes that choice.
Now, now, we’ve agreed that the bar has been raised with regards to the word “hero” (thank God). Ali can’t be blamed for what others call him.
Whatever you may think about him in the ring, he did take a principled stand and took an absolute raft of shit for it. Moreover, he took the penalty for it. He did not dodge the draft.
Unfortunately, I suspect that the substantial load of rubbish that careened on his head during his prime has been replaced by an equally substantial load of sentimental rubbish now that he has been rendered safe (sort of like Richard Pryor and, to a lesser extent, Michael J. Fox, and isn’t that a helluva comedown, from a great fighter and a great comedian to a decent actor). But that’s more of a comment on the nature of celebrity than a reflection on Ali. Your great work can be extremely misunderstood and your mediocre work praised to the skies. And nobody understand what you really mean by it (just ask Springsteen about “Born in the USA”).
Anyone who would get in the ring with Sonny Liston is damn well a hero. And, while I am pissed off about it, Ali was in no fucking way a draft doger. He stood up for what he believed in and accepted the penalty for his actions. He was stripped of his championship for no reason other than political expediency—he did not violate any rules of boxing and taking his title away was chickenshit in the extreme. He maintained his pride and dignity through it all and never once, to my knowlege, publicly complained of wrong treatment. Ali just may be the absolute best heavy weight of all time, and don’t you forget it.
"I don’t think anyone should bother to point out any “below the belt” shots Ali may have verbally taken on his opponents. It’s part of building up a lot of tension to make the match bigger.
Besides, it was part of Ali’s character. "
Yes, it was part of his character, and he deserves to be called on it.
There is nothing wrong with hyping a fight; I happen to enjoy the way Tyson does it (although he’s gone overboard too), as well as the traditional pre-fight nose-to-nose “staredown.”
But calling Foreman and Frazier “gorillas” to me is no different than calling them the “N-word.” I see nothing heroic in that, and I think it detracts from any claims of heroism.
He should’ve called them “infidels.” Now, that wouldv’e taken some balls…
What part of
That is pretty pathetic. Your standards are pretty low.
Call him a hero for his humanitarian work or other things he does. Don’t call him a hero because he boxes.
Is the guy who wrestles crocodiles at county fairs a hero? That’s dangerous too.
Hero 1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities. 2. a man who is regarded as having herioic qualities and is considered a model or ideal. 3. see Hero Sandwich.
Ok, Ali certainly had distinguished ability: arguably the greatest boxer of all time. I believe that stepping into the ring is brave. But according to the definition one has to be admired for brave deeds AND noble qualities. Although Ali could be a brash loud-mouth, I certainly believe that he has noble qualities. When he lit the Olympic flame at Atlanta it brought tears to my eyes. Putting “Muhammad Ali” humanitarian into google produces 1,220 hits.
I asked a black friend of mine about this and he felt strongly that Ali was a hero, as he was an important figure in the development of black pride. He was “a strong black man in a fucked-up time.”
So, I checked out his bio at The National Geographic Society: [exerpt]
Ali’s life and career have been played out as much on the front page as on the sports page. His early embrace of the Nation of Islam and his insistence on being called Muhammad Ali instead of his “slave name,” Cassius Clay, heralded a new era in black pride. His refusal to be inducted into the United States Army anticipated the growing antiwar movement of the 1960s. And his willingness to stage his fights in such far-flung locales as Kinshasa, Zaire; Manila, Philipines; and Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia signaled a shift away from superpower dominance toward a growing awareness of the importance of the Third World.
I still don’t know if he is a hero to me, but to some he obviously is. And IMHO the more heroes we have in this (still) fucked-up world, the better. Why topple giants of good?
He didn’t dodge the draft; as a Muslim priest, and a conscientious objector, he was supposed to get a deferment, but that was denied him. The US Supreme Court reversed the conviction. If those of insist that Ollie North is not innocent of lying to congress, then don’t insist that ali was a draft dodger; the US Supreme Court declared that he is not.