I’ll tell you what, Cookies. I won’t make a broad smear against everyone who doesn’t reveal (I can see Chucara’s reasons for not revealing, although I disagree with them), I’ll just make them against you.
As I said, I can buy Good clerics making an argument for not sharing. I can buy a Good Magic-User not sharing. But you don’t have a helpful Class-action that you’d need to keep secret. None of the generic actions seem to be things that would be kept secret. I smell something.
vote: CTTDSWHC
I’m not sure how practical holding back any information is in this game. We can lynch a (hypothetically) unlimited number of people, scum can Curse, and there are items in the game capable of disposing of people. So gaming for the long term is problematic because there’s no way to predict who is going to survive the Turn.
Granted, I take a shorter term view than most given the Curse, but I think it would be beneficial to the town for everyone to be as informative as possible, that way we can begin to sort out the liars. There’s probly some scenarios I’m not considering due to the complicated setup, but this is an open, high-kill game - and I’m not feeling all this secrecy either.
Investigators keep quiet in regular Mafia to stay hidden. But we know who all the investigators are, can someone inform me as to what the point of holding back in this game is?
It doesn’t have to come from those withholding information, just anyone who can figure out a good reason for it.
Chucara, I find your strategy intriguing (in a good way). I had approached the Cleric role as having been shed the difficulty of needing to stay quiet so that scum don’t know who the investigator is. Your idea that suppressing the information to make it more powerful during the endgame makes sense, but I offer the following:
All in all, Chucara’s plan has its benefits and associated risks. I don’t feel the need to pressure her into acting one way or the other. I’m intrigued enough, that I’m considering the adoption of her reveal policy as my own; but I think doing that for both Clerics is probably a mistake. How about Chucara does whatever she wants, and I’ll report my findings each Turn?
Already discussed. Not a huge mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Don’t let this mistake deter you though. During Turn One, your powers were useless. But Now your powers will become critical. As far as I can tell, no one has reported a missing item. Storyteller should be without any items, tdpatriots should have two, and everyone else should have one. If your item investigation shows any results that are inconsistent with this status, then someone is lying (i.e. you found someone who is lying). Right now, the only person who could be in a state of lying is storyteller (and some random Evil), and that is quite a stretch. The situation would have to be something like storyteller was holding something other than the Helm, but one of his scumbuddies did have the Helm. In order to avoid being exposed, The Helm holder passed his item to tdpatriots, leaving storyteller with one item and some other scum with zero. (Again, I don’t think it is likely, but this is the only thing that I think magic users can look for This Turn).
During the Next Turn, magic users can look for anyone with more or fewer items then they should have. Any pro-Town player trying to take from the Hoard will probably target the Orb of Healing specifically AND CLAIM. So if someone picks up the Amulet, then magic users can look for someone with more items than they should have.
Curing is a one shot power. If I use it, I want to be sure I’m using it on a good choice and not the choice that Evil stuck me with. The questions I’m considering are “Why did Evil choose to curse tdpatriots?” “Who will Evil likely curse next?” “Who does Evil really want dead?” “Who will be most damaging to Evil’s success?”
Right now tdpatriots doesn’t look like a good candidate for curing. From the very beginning of the game I’d considered his role a detriment to my own. I can’t investigate him, and he has powers that mess up mine. If we had ended up disintegrating tdpatriots last Turn, I would not have stood in the way.
Frankly, I’m baffled as to why Evil cursed tdpatriots. I know he expected it, but I didn’t see the logic in his reasoning. Do we really think Evil wants the Helm of Empathy that badly? I still contend that scum will need to be careful about item inventory as we all know how many items each person should have. Inconsistency, as reported by magic users, will be a good reason for disintegration.
Right now I’m leaning against curing tdpatriots, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
This is a good point. We as a group need to determine a collective approach to the game. Are we going to play a more traditional mafia game where we use behaviors to determine who is Evil? (That probably sounds remarkably obvious since this is nominally a mafia game, but Pleonast’s games are not “typical mafia”) In Conspiracy, I contend (Pleonast disputes) that information was Bad for Town. We accidentally fell into a habit of not revealing much and lynching for crappy reasons during the early game, but this didn’t hurt us much. By Day Three we were able to rely on Powers and game mechanics to guide each and every decision we had to make from there to the end of the game. It was not “typical.”
So the question now is, how does this ruleset stack up? Is information good or bad and for whom? I don’t have the answers yet, but it’s clear that so far we are not playing “typical mafia.” I’m not sure that we will be able to. Do we expect* to catch scum based on behavior and voting histories? Or are we expecting to catch scum based on role powers? Much of our decisions will be based on what role each person has. This isn’t typical mafia and we can’t treat it as such (IMO).
The game is designed in such a way as to allow easy discussion of roles, actions, and strategies. Furthermore, the short Days discourage typical mafia approaches. It simply is easier to think in term of optimal moves, rather than look at non-existent-behavior and draw conclusions from that.
I’ve already said that “nothing happened” with respect to my turn. You might want to take another look at what I can do. There are most certainly “helpful” options, and options that have a perfectly pro-Good reason for not sharing them at this point in time.
We should keep in mind that we may be close to or at LYLO, since we killed two Good characters last turn and one of the distribution possibilities had only two mislynches. In fact, I am almost inclined to vote no lynch this Turn and see what information we can come up with - this is such an information-rich game that we are going to get a lot without needing to get information by lynching as much as in a normal game. I don’t feel there’s a really strong candidate yet, and we don’t have much time left in the Turn. (I do feel suspicious of those who don’t want to reveal their actions.)
It has been inferred and hinted to death, but I protected someone last night. I’m not going to say who, but I got no response with any sort of results, and as you all can see, no one died. I don’t get to know if the recipient of my protection was attacked or not, unless they die or live to tell the tale.
There. Was that useful and helpful enough for anyone? Everyone feel better? Or do you need the name too? Just let me know when you want me to start broadcasting who I’m going to protect before I actually do so. That will be quite the productive use of the one public knowledge thing that I can potentially do to help someone else in private on Turn/Day 2. :rolleyes:
IMHO we are handing this game to pretty much anyone who is not LG, and since the only two bodies were CG, I’ll let everyone else use their fingers and toes to figure out how that remaining distribution is likely leaning. At least we don’t have to “worry” about which way those two CG players would decide to play, and hopefully if there are any left, they’ll play more for Good than for Chaos. It sure looks like Good could use the help.
This is an interesting point, but I’m not sure we can No Lynch in this game. I just sent Pleo a PM asking about it.
Usually, there are good “game theory” reasons not to no lynch, complete with numerical analyses how no lynches and mislynches affect our chances. I suck at that shit. I’d be interested in seeing someone who is good at that (ahem storyteller? sachertorte? Bueller?) chime in.
But it might not be a bad idea in this set-up. Certainly worth a look, IMO.
Feel better now? Did you feel you were pressured into revealing that? Because from where I sit, if you’re pissed at being forced to reveal something you did not want to, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Rules Clarification:
It is not possible to vote “No Lynch”. The only way for a Turn to not have a Disintegration is if all remaining characters are Halflings or Gnomes and none of them have a majority of votes.
Well, crap. We better get this one right, then.
I too, am going to demurr on what I did last night.
Complete-ish roster of Turn One Actions*:
storyteller gave the Helm of Empathy to tdpatriots
tdpatriots accepted the Helm
sach investigated someone and failed
Hawkeyeop detected magic on Darth Sensitive
MHaye Watched sach
Chucara implied that she investigated someone, but is not revealing
ShadowFacts is not revealing his Action now
sinjin focused his chi
Zsofia watched Hawkeyeop and saw him do something to Darth
Boozahol stabbed zuma and his blade passed through empty space
Cookies attempted to protect someone
Hockey Monkey is not revealing her Action now
Darth Sensitive is not revealing his Action now
*Assuming everyone is telling the truth, which I am sure everyone is 
I don’t understand this point. Only Evil can Curse, so as far as I can tell, you will always be choosing someone Evil stuck you with. 
It is a matter of principles I suppose. The bits of information I have are, I believe, trivial. A small amount of security-through-obscurity has been lost in the decision to reveal what I have, but not much. I did choose to reveal, and was not forced to. There was pressure, however, and a vote, and I chose to reveal to prevent wasting time being stubborn about it and drawing more pressure and wasting time.
In my opinion, getting snarky at me for getting snarky and not looking at the people who continued to make vague “I don’t know if I like this not-revealing stuff” proves the point of view that I made in my previous post.
Yes, but Evil will want to kill off those who are most detrimental to their goal. I just don’t see tdpatriots as that person. If anything, I see Evil targeting tdpatriots because they WANT me to use my cure on him thereby removing my ability to cure someone else.
It’s a sucky way of looking at things, but an Illusionist is smack near the bottom of my list of roles I’d like to save.
If I knew for a fact that there were 5 Evil in the game, then I’d probably try and save tdpatriots. But the way I look at it, if there are 5 Evil in this game, then we are screwed anyway. I might as well optimize for the more likely 4 Evil scenario than worry about a less likely and highly stacked 5 Evil case.
Might I die before getting to cure someone? Maybe. But benefits have their risks.
As someone who practically invented (not in this game, but a different one) “not-revealing stuff,” I’ll state that Town was the most critical of my choice to not reveal. Scum were actually quite supportive, and not because it benefitted them. It was because they knew I was truthful. Distrust of something even as seemingly innocuous as Cookies declining to advertise what is her rather obvious action, is a bit more of a Town tell than a scum one.
In this game, I’m not inclined to agree with that.
OK, I get what you’re saying now. I disagree, but it’s your power, not mine, so I’m not going to argue about it.
Zsofia,
Could you verify whether you saw Hawkeyeop do something physical or magical to Darth Sensitive?
Also, could you explain your reasoning for watching Hawkeyeop? Any insight as to why you are not interested in determining alignment?