I submit that if I was Evil and you were not, I had a far better set of actions available.
Vote for both of you, and flirt with ShadowFacts.
Boozahol may or may not have lived, but Evil would have been in a much stronger position, because Chucara would have remained unfingered if you weren’t alive to report, and ShadowFacts (who had claimed to have the Ring of Limited Wishes) needed a distraction to put him off his stride.
I don’t disagree.
I just have trouble assigning too much value to Turn 3 because Chucara also voted to keep me alive, which I still don’t understand.
Because you were buddies?
Me neither.
The thing that thesis doesn’t explain is what Sachertorte did - or rather, tried to do - to Chucara on Turn One. I know he failed to perform a magical action on Chucara Turn 1, because I saw him.
Now you can accuse me of being in cahoots with Sach, but that would mean that there were five Evil players. There had to be a better way of winning the game than throwing each other under the bus at that point.
Why not investigate your evil buddy on Turn 1? Especially if you just managed to off two town lurkers. Who led the charge for that? Who threatened to never play with Blam again? What better cover? And note that neither sache or chucara ever turned up a Good investigation. How many times does that happen in mafia? The only one who has found a Good player was Shadowfacts with his one time investigation.
And what better way to get total town cred then by turning over the other investigator as evil on Turn 1 if it turned out he actually had to fess up with a result? But he didn’t have to did he? Maybe he lucked out and got the no result from his investigation. Maybe he used a magical device that failed. Who knows? He and you are the only ones left who haven’t revealed what’s in his stash. Even more surprising since sache wanted to give his away Turn 1.
Evil has had the game in the bag for so long I think they are just getting antsy for the win.
Not only does she have you in cahoots with sache, but she has me in cahoots with sache. Indeed, her trepidation over the nuclear option (being Evil antsy for the win), suggests that she probably also think that Zsofia is in league with us.
While sinjin’s paranoia is a natural part of the game, I think that she’s gone a little overboard. While we don’t -know- much about anyone’s alignment, we need to allow ourselves the ability to not onlysuspect people of being Evil (which allows us to vote for them), but also to suspect them of being Good. It’s that latter option that I think sinjin has thrown entirely out.
Oh darn the luck, you’ve outed me.
unvote all
vote sinjin
Go Evil, I hope I’ve confused them enough.
sinjin, I have been making a strong effort to listen to and engage with you, because my read on you was Town. But I gotta tell you, it seems like you’re going off the rails here. What’s your case? It seems like you still think sach is scum - do you agree then that Boozahol must be scum as well? If so, what conclusions do you draw from that? Can you find evidence that supports that? So far, your evidence appears to be 1. That sach wanted Boozahol on his investigate list. Anything else?
I really do not understand what your thinking is, so please try not to get frustrated and lay it out. You should presumably trust me at this point, I think, because if sach is scum, then Boozahol is scum, which means I cannot be scum because there cannot be 6 scum.
Unless, of course, your admission of Evil is actually accurate, in which case, good riddance. 
Given that it appears to be inconceivable that:
Sachertorte is scum or
Boozy is scum or
Zsophia is scum or
Shadowfacts is scum or
MHaye is scum.
sinjin must be scum. QED
Ok, one last time:
I could go on, but the writing is on the wall. You guys all think I’m a nutcase. It looks like it’s between me and MHaye this Turn and I don’t think Mhaye is Evil. Bleh, I don’t feel like typing anymore.
You doing this is getting tiring.
Yeah, I know and I’m sorry, I get a little worked up sometimes. But seriously the way things are going it appears that MHaye and I are the only two contenders for the disintegrator. You’re going to do one of us this Turn and the other next Turn. I truely don’t believe MHaye is Evil and have a tiny bit of hope that if you do me first you’ll reconsider offing MHaye tomorrow.
So, we didn’t decide for or against the nuclear option?
sinjin, thanks for that comprehensive post above. I haven’t had time to go check out all the allegations, but I will. But before I do that, let me say this: if you are Town, the worst thing you can do is get yourself lynched. I understand being frustrated in these games, but sacrificing yourself not going to make a difference on MHaye, it’s just going to make us all annoyed with you when your alignment is revealed.
In addition, if you are Town, you cannot possibly know MHaye’s alignment for sure. So, even if you are 99% sure he is Town (and I don’t see how that is possible), you are 100% sure you are Town. So the better play is to lynch MHaye. Think about it.
Apparently not. But if sinjin does not cooperate, we can’t do it. As it stands sinjin is only voting for herself – the exact inverse of what she needs to do to make the nuclear option work.
If we don’t go nuclear, I’m pushing to disintegrate sinjin.
zuma: ShadowFacts (198), sinjin (200), [Boozahol Squid, P.I. (207)-(277)], Chucara (214), Hockey Monkey (242), ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (245), [sachertorte (246)-(293)], Zsofia (249), tdpatriots12 (257), MHaye (290), Blaster Master (308), [Hawkeyeop (321)-(359)], storyteller0910 (363)
Shadowfacts, sinjin, Chucara, and Hockey Monkey are the first four votes for both Blaster Master and zuma.
I will very vocally will accept that I led the charge to maintain state when Blaster Master showed up at the last minute. I feel that was the right move. The result was not good for Town, but the move was correct. Altering course because someone suddenly shows up less than two hours before the end of the Turn was and is unacceptable to me.
5) I was wrong about storyteller. It happens. But I’m not capable of lynching storyteller alone. I was the first vote on storyteller. tdpatriots (Good), hawkeyeop (Good), Darth Sensitive (Evil) also voted for storyteller. You (sinjin) were voting for Cookies (Good). Shall we blame you for being wrong about that and trying to get a Good player killed?
6) This one is my favorite! “The natives were getting restless because the “investigators had no results” And shazam results were supplied.” Who was getting restless. There was ONE Turn where I got no results. Hockey Monkey (Evil) was the only one who had a problem with this. So you are suspicious of me because EVIL had a problem with me!
6b) Darth’s statements about using the staff on Shadowfacts lends no credibility to my alignment at all – not for Good and not for Evil. Darth is EVIL. We aren’t going to take anything he says into account. Why is it that you take the statements of proven Evil players at face value, but refuse to give me one iota of benefit? People don’t think I’m Good because of Darth. The evidence is I investigated Hockey Monkey and Chucara as Evil, and they are.
7) Um, have you forgotten that you were leading the charge to kill Cookies? Oh my god, an inconsistency, you must be EVIL!
8) How is this relevant? Did this event have some impact on the game? I’m not dead you know, and it isn’t because of Squid.
9) Again, what is your point?
Actually no. I think you are Evil.
Evil who is frustrated at how the game has swung rapidly against them.
Evil who is frustrated that they can’t effectively kill a Half-Elf Cleric with the Evil Curse.
Evil who knows the Nuclear option will work and end the game to the benefit of Good.
Evil who has now overplayed the sympathy card.
You know I can’t drop item and cure you at the same time right?
Maybe Zsofia would be so kind as to beat the crap out of me this Turn and knock my item into the Hoard?
Or perhaps Zsofia should try and find the Helm by kicking someone else. - No, that doesn’t seem like a good idea since the true Helm holder will probably drop it.
Also, MHaye has multiple items, he can’t drop them all.
I feel strongly that Squid is Lawful. He jumped on the Nuclear option which if he were Chaotic, he would be less inclined to support.
I know that I am Lawful, but I submit that I also have been pushing for my own disintegration this turn which should be some evidence that I am not Chaotic.
ShadowFacts does not want to die. I see Chaotic possibilities there; but ShadowFacts does not have any items so I’m less concerned.
MHaye has been mostly silent on the issue. Again possible Chaotic there, plus he has several items.
I feel we need to kill Sinjin because she is Evil.
I feel we need to kill MHaye because he might be Chaotic.
I’d rather kill everyone (except Zsofia).
If ShadowFacts were to claim Chaotic, I might give him a reprieve (And even help with a Cure).
It’s possible, but why vote for herself? She put herself in the vote lead - if no one upsets the status quo, she’s gone and the game is (probably) over. Doesn’t seem like a good play to me.
Then don’t cure me. I am Lawful and don’t mind dying. I would prefer you drop your items than cure me in this instance.
You’re wrong about that. According to the rules: “Give Item: You put one or more of your magic items back into the Hoard…” (bolding mine) Everyone can and should drop all of their items into the Hoard this Turn, as I said earlier.
You’re basing these feelings on the reaction to your Nuclear option, which is a mistake. Opposition to the nuclear option does not necessarily mean that one is not Lawful, and agreement does not necessarily mean that one is. I know, because I don’t want to do it and I’m Lawful. (My post is my cite! :D) My opposition has nothing to do with not wanting to die - I’m Cursed, I’m almost certainly going to die anyway.
Sorry, can’t help you, I’m not Chaotic.
She is scuttling the nuclear option, which is a clear loser for Evil. This puts us in a difficult position. If we lynch sinjin outright (which is actually my third choice in optimal things to do) then there is the possibility that a Chaotic MHaye could win. I can see Evil doing this.
My second choice would be to kill both sinjin and MHaye, since that eliminates the Chaotic threat (assuming I’m correct about Squid and that the rest of you trust me that I’m Lawful). But by voting for herself, sinjin scuttles this too as we can’t be sure whether or not sinjin will last second unvote to save herself.
That leaves either killing someone else or killing only sinjin and exposing ourselves to a possible Chaotic MHaye win. I admit, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for Evil for vote for themselves, but it also doesn’t make sense for Good to do so either. Historically, Townies don’t vote for themselves. Scum who have given up do.
Sinjin probably knows that the game is over anyway. Its just a matter of whether Evil loses this turn or next turn. Even if sinjin manages to wiggle out of the lynch this turn, she knows the only other player that might (50% chance) die is ShadowFacts. I’ll still be here gunning for sinjin’s death.
And did you miss the part where sinjin roots for Evil to win and hopes that she has confused us? Has Town ever admitted to being scum before?
I hit the wrong smiley. It was supposed to be this one :rolleyes:, but my stupid thinkpad only has a track-stick that suffers severe hysterisis.