Skills don’t mix good!
Maybe makes items and talents not as good for smashing me!
/not a post restriction, orc-speak for my own amusement
Clarification on the Elf Clerics. The investigation chance is low, but the Elf Race trait moves the investigation to even chance. So Chucara and I each have a 3/6 chance of investigating each Turn.
Chucara, when you get back to the game, we should have a discussion about who we investigate. I don’t think it is wise for us to publicly state who we will investigate each Turn (obviously we will publicly report results as soon as we get them). I’m thinking that we might want to divide the character list into two halves and we each investigate from our respective halves while we are both alive. Possible methods for creating this list is we each alternate picking someone to add to our list, or we could have me divide the list into two and you pick which one you want, or vice versa; or we can have someone generate two randomized sets based on Basketball scores (they are still playing basketball now right?).
Of course, collectively we don’t know that both Chucara and I are pro-Town, but the way I see it, it makes sense to avoid overlapping investigations. If we are both Pro-Town, then the benefits are obvious. If one of us is Evil, then the impact is not so terrible yet, and we will need to revisit this division mid-game anyway. Both of us are not Evil, but even if we were, then dividing the lists is moot from the Town’s point of view as all the information would be useless anyway.
I don’t see the benefit of having something in general possession that is detrimental to the Town. I have one of the items that conceals alignment, and no smart investigator is going to be investigating me, anyways. What’s the possible benefit of me putting it in the stash, where it could be stolen?
I’m concerned that a mass item reveal will just give the Evil characters information, while not giving Good characterss enough. Evil characters will probably lie about their items, especially if they have one of the more effective ‘anti-Town’ items.
Any of your pro-town benefits of a mass item claim will be cancelled by Evil being able to lie and switch around what they have. Remember, too, that this game doesn’t have a 'Night, and that Evil can talk any time they wish. They can switch around their item reveals, leaving the most incriminating items to be the ones revealed by those last in line, who then would have a much lower chance of doubling up on items with someone else.
My thoughts, exactly. This, of course, means that Evil can probably get an extra Night Kill on me if Zsofia or Blaster Master is one of their number. Just putting that out there, in case I turn up cold and twitching at the end of Turn One.
I wasn’t just thinking about the investigative results, but the fact that a Cleric can reduce the odds of a curse killing someone from 5/6 to 1/2. Cancelling a curse is a huge help to us.
Having read the thread so far, the first thing I’ll say is that I agree with sachertorte; the Helm of Empathy is an extremely anti-Town device, and its possessor should reveal it and discuss the future of the item.
I am the current possessor of the Helm of Empathy. What the hell should I do with it?
Oh! And while I’m here, just in case a random order is needed (any group action has been thwarted repeatedly in these games by endless haggling over the randomization method):
At 10:00PM EST, Montreal and Vancouver will play (NHL hockey). I propose that the randomization seed, should one be required, will be the sum of the total number of shots on goal taken by each team. If a second seed is required, it will be the final total number of points scored by both teams combined in the NBA All-Star Game (ongoing as of this writing).
In the morning, I will check and report the results, which can then be used if and when randomization of some kind is needed.
I sincerely hope you are not Evil storyteller, as you are pretty freaking powerful on your own. If the Helm of Empathy is in the hands of Evil and they are your hands, we might as well give up now. (I would imagine that coming clean with your possession of said item would make the likelyhood of your Evilness markedly low though.) (Unless you are already playing the WIFOM card.) (Yeah this game is going to make my head hurt.)
The way I see the choices of what to do with your item:
- Keep it and don’t use it. You will know it will be safe.
- Keep it and use it. Maybe you can find a non-anti-Town way to use it. (Unless you are Evil, in which case you will probably do what you want with it anyway.
) - Place it back in the Hoard. Pros, we can watch it and see if someone tries to take it knowing it’s anti-Town. Cons, it could fall into the wrong hands.
- Give it to someone. Eh, probably not a good idea.
I will do some more studying tomorrow at work, but right now my gut says you should hold on to it and do nothing with it.
- Requires trusting storyteller to not use it
- Requires trusting storyteller to come up with a pro-town way of using it, and actually use it that way
- Requires at least one player to watch the Hoard every turn
- Requires trusting whoever he gives it to, someone confirmed, who we don’t yet have, so it means doing 1-2 until we actually have confirmed Town
To me it doesn’t seem like anything but #3 is a good option at this point.
Oh…
OPTION THREE GOOD. OTHER OPTIONS DUMB.
Considering it’s perhaps the most powerful of these items, you might want to keep it to yourself. While it’s good that you have an ability to ward off attempts to steal it, there are two different thieves, either of whom might try to mug you for it if they’re evil.
Dwarf: You are a member of the most physical race. Any physical action you take has an improved chance of success.
Thief: You are sneaky and guileful. Because of your covetous nature, any attempt to affect items in your possession or collect information about them has only a low chance to succeed. As your class action, you may attempt to filch an item from another character. You have an even chance to gain a random item from them if you succeed. Once per game, you may choose to rob all the items from another character, with a separate high chance of success for each item they have. These are physical abilities.
Because I am a Dwarf, my Thieving abilities (since they are physical) will have an improved chance of success.
I didn’t say they were all good options, just that those were the options.
Obvious Paranoia…
Falsely claiming the Helm of Empathy could be a ploy to try and provide cover to the claimer.
First thing’s first:
Montreal and Vancouver had an aggregate 61 shots on goal in last night’s game (27 for Montreal, 34 for Vancouver), so the seed for any random distribution required in the near future will be 61. If a second seed is needed, it will be 146 + 119, or 265.
Second: whoever has the Wand of Nullification should use it on me as soon as possible. Obliterate the Helm of Empathy, and it can no longer threaten the sucess of any investigations.
I am wondering about the mass claim of alignments. People will lie, but what’s the downside? The evils already know who the not-evils are, of course, but there’s no reason in the world that the Lawfuls and Chaotics can’t work effectively together and all win.
Heck: if the Lawful Evils could just out their Chaotic counterparts, every Lawful Good, Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil character could all win together, at the expense of the Chaotic Evil characters, if I read the rules correctly.
Clarifications on stuff previously stated by me:
I had supposed that Evil skipping a turn then relying on an Evil Cleric to give cover to the Evil player false-claiming having been cursed didn’t seem like a viable ploy. I was wrong. I had forgotten that everyone has a 5/6th chance of surviving the curse. So a viable Evil ploy would be to skip the Curse one Turn, have an Evil Character claim having been cursed, then pretend to have won the save. This would make such a player “look Good.”
What does this mean? Surely survivors of a curse are more likely to be Good, but we must remain aware that they could still be Evil.
I’m also wary of someone who “survives” a Curse resulting from a Turn with multiple Death. What I envision is Evil cursing someone who dies the same Turn from someone else’s action. This would be a prime opportunity for Evil to false-claim Cursed-ness.
Just so everyone is aware.
I intend to investigate you when I use my Luck ability. If you have whatever item it is that you say you have. I can’t.
I would LOVE for Evil to lie about which items they have. The more they lie, the more chances we have at catching them in their lie. If someone says they have item X, but we never SEE item X, then I would be fine in killing that player, wouldn’t you?
Furthermore, items like the Rod of Divination would be an investigative tool to verify that each player has the item that was claimed.
Also, Cookies can blow a portion of the items into the hoard which will allow for some verification. Bottom line: lies at this point can eventually be proven to be lies. Anyone lying about what they have should be killed.
Finally, Good players are confessing the possession of the anti-Town items anyway. Having everyone claim will not reveal new critical information to the scum. Unless there is a specific item that is only pro-Town if it is hidden and becomes anti-Town if revealed; but I don’t see any of those yet.
Absolutely, basketball (in still in season) is fine with me. I’m not entirely sure how that would work, but I assume some of you have done so before?
I really don’t like your conclusion on the item revealing however… Wouldn’t we hand all the good items to scum?
Storyteller cannot keep it and not use it. Having the Helm is equivalent to using it (I asked Pleonast). The Helm possessor does not need to use an action to use the Helm. Mere possession makes the Helm’s power active.
I’m leaning towards storyteller holding it for this Turn. Hoping that the possessor of any item investigating or destroying tools uses them on storyteller this Turn.
- I would like to verify that storyteller has the Helm of Empathy. I’m pretty sure he does, but Cookies makes a decent point about some other Evil having the Helm and storyteller pretending to have the Helm so that storyteller won’t be investigated and if the other Evil does get investigated, we get bad information. This scenario is possible, but the high risk of storyteller being exposed to such a simple lie makes me think he is telling the truth
- Destroying whatever item storyteller has will accomplish (1) [I think; should probably verify with Pleonast] while also destroying the anti-Town item.
Furthermore. If anyone who is not storyteller is in possession of the Helm of Empathy, he or she should claim so now.
After we verify that no one else claims ownership of the Helm, we should agree that anyone who comes into possession of the Helm of Empathy must do so immediately with a pausible explanation or face death. Obviously anyone (who is not storyteller) caught unclaimed with the Helm of Empathy will be killed.
Unfortunately, the seeding method must be devised in advance of the seeding. Given a seed one can design the seeding method to give the desired result. By designing the seeding method first, the random seed gives up control of the outcome. If I recall, the usual method is to select N-1 games, specify their order, and generate a list based on (aggregate score) mod (N) + 1; using Pleonast’s original player list.
Finally, since we need two lists: I would give Chucara the Odds, and I would take the Evens with the following modifications:
I should be on Chucara’s list and Chucara should be on mine
I want Squid on my list since I can relatively safely investigate him (her?) when I use my Luck ability.
Can someone generate a list of 14 high scoring games and list them here, in order?
If we accept my modifications, we would only need 11, as 3 will have been assigned already.
There are risks, I acknowledge that. This is why we need to discuss rules and policies. The way I’m looking at a mass reveal is that we identify what items we have and who has them. While this opens the opportunity for Evil to steal powerful items, it also opens the opportunity for players to deduce that a specific player had stolen an anti-Town item from another player. So the question is do the benefits outweigh the risks?
On a similar but separate thought, I’m wondering if we should treat stealing as a capital offense. That is, if Player X reports an item has been stolen and Player Y accuses player Z of stealing (“I watched Z last night and Z had a physical action on X”) and Player Y is proven to be Good, should we kill Player Z? Is stealing ever a pro-Town action? Obviously if the item is anti-Town we would kill Z, but what if it was some other item?