NETA: Confirmed! And now I need to really go read the rules, since I didn’t think I was playing.
I have meditated in a circle of alder saplings, bathed in the blood of a white goat under the full moon, and the Goddess did bequeath to me my purpose.
This is the first thing that REALLY jumps out at me about the rule set. I’ve never played or read a game where you could vote for multiple people (except the Borda Count game, which is a different thing entirely). The main effect I see is that this reduces the power of the individual vote, since now you don’t have to choose just one person to vote for. Also, it’s going to make vote analysis tricky. I personally will be trying hard to demand that everyone account for their votes. People who throw off votes with little justification are automatically going to be on my suspicion list.
Also, I did a little counting. We’ve got at least one of every Race and the following distribution of Classes:
Cleric - 2
Druid - 1
Fighter - 1
Ranger - 1
Paladin - 2
Magic-user - 2
Illusionist - 1
Thief - 2
Assassin - 1
Monk - 1
Bard - 1
Don’t know if that’s useful, but you never know.
Got pm.
So Orderly and Chaotic players can share a victory. All we have to do is keep chaotic players alive, but not is possession of magical items. We should consider a full claim of lawful/chaos. The question is would both sides have reason to be truthful. It is a bit of a prisoner’s dilemma.
Rules Clarifications:
Votes on a Halflings/Gnome–a H/G will accumulate votes like everyone else, but the vote total on it will not be considered when determining the Disintegration(s), unless a majority of characters have placed a vote on it. So for example, with 10 characters, the votes are5 Halfling Howard
4 Elf Edward
3 Dwarf Davidthen the Elf gets Disintegrated.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
A list of items in the Hoard will be announced at the beginning of each Turn. The source of these will not be disclosed unless the cause is publicly known (e.g., Disintegration, and certain other powers).
The only item in the Hoard is currently:
Rod of Disintegration (unstealable)
10 players: 12 votes? Who stuffed the ballot box?
vote: Howard
If I counted correctly there are also 9 magical items from the list that are therefore not in this game. I’m going to guess that some of the extra killy ones are amongst the non-present.
Amulet of Reflection: While you possess this magic item, any magical effect that fails to affect you instead reflects back to their originator. Each successful reflection uses one charge. 1-3 charges.
Extremely anti-Town. As far as I have noticed so far, no magical effect is lethal. Investigative powers are mostly magical. Other magical effects justify wanting to dodge them, but I’m particularly concerned about the Reflection’s ability to obfuscate an investigation. I feel use of the Amulet is most powerful for Evil to avoid detection/investigation. What is worse is that the amulet will yield false results, masking an Evil player as a Good player. Unfortunately, the Amulet is passive, so mere possession engages the power. I’m not willing to immediately call possession of the Amulet scummy, but someone intentionally obtaining the amulet would constitute an Evil act in my opinion. A Good player in possession of the Amulet will need to tread carefully. Part of me wants a Good player in possession of the Amulet to claim, but I worry that letting everyone know who has the amulet is a recipe for scum to steal it.
Cloak of Elvenkind: Any Turn you use this magic item, any attempt to watch or investigate you will have a reduced chance to succeed. 1-6 charges.
Moderately anti-Town. Anyone proven to have used the Cloak of Elvenkind should be killed ASAP. Good roles have no reason to avoid investigation. In fact, successful investigation of Good characters is optimal use of investigations. Again, I’m not sure that mere possession of the Cloak should be a capital offense, but I’d be willing to pass such as resolution if most players agree. Clearly, using the Cloak of Elvenkind should be met with rapid death. The Amulet is clearly more powerful and more of a trouble to investigators. A failed investigation (Cloak) is bad, but falsified results (Amulet) is worse.
Helm of Empathy: While you wear this item, any attempt to determine your alignment has a high chance to return the snooper’s own alignment. Each successful distortion uses a charge. 1-6 charges.
Extremely anti-Town. Like the Cloak, obfuscation of alignment is anti-Town. Unlike the Cloak, the Helm returns false information with HIGH chance. There is no pro-Town use of this item. Any Good player in the position to destroy the Helm of Empathy should do so. I would even go so far as to say that undisclosed possession of the Helm should result in death(except for Turn One).
Rod of Divination: When activated, you have a high chance to learn the identity of a random magic item in your target character’s possession. 1-6 charges.
If we decide that possession of certain items is only beneficial for Evil, then the Rod of Divination becomes an investigative tool. For example, if we outlaw possession of the Helm of Empathy, Amulet of Refection, and Cloak of Elvenkind, then someone using the Rod of Divination could find out if someone is in possession of these contraband items. I’m not sure if that is a good use of a Turn though.
I, in general agree with sache’s analysis, although I’d add the Staff of Command as a generally anti-town magical item.
Furthermore, while targeting me is a bad idea for anyone, anyways (with my sneaky traps, and all), I have one of sache’s aforementioned items. Because of the fact that I’m dangerous to any investigative role (except to the Paladin, whom I have a 5/6 chance of killing myself if he investigates me), I’m going to sit on the item and will happily collect any others, even if it means I’m bound to be unconfirmable and therefore a good lynch target much sooner.
And while I’m add it, I should mention that I’m very, very suspicious of us having two Clerics.
OK, confirming my role, and saying for the record that I have no freaking idea how to proceed with this game. The overlapping win conditions are quite curious.
This means we’ll be making it up as we go along?
What fun!
I agree with your assessment of the Staff of Command. As is probably not too surprising, my first cut analysis was focused on ways to obfuscate and avoid investigation. But as Squid points out, the Staff of Command injects false information into the night actions and that is bad for Town.
I think you should consider putting the item into the Hoard.
- You acknowledge that the item is anti-Town, therefore using it is anti-Town.
- Your night actions are all also anti-Town, so you don’t have a “better” action to take.
- There is currently nothing stealable in the Hoard, so there is no point in ‘watching’ the Hoard during Turn One.
Having the item in the Hoard does open the possibility of someone trying to take it. However, hopefully someone will watch the Hoard on subsequent nights and see if someone tries to take it.
Crazy Idea Number One:
What are the risks and benefits of mass claiming items possessed?
The risk I see is that Evil will be better able to optimize their Actions to avoid the potential pitfalls from the items.
- we don’t know who is Evil, so we won’t be able to see whether the Evil roles benefit from certain items more than others, but Evil will be better able to target and obtain items best suited for their goals.
The benefits I see is that Good will be better able to optimize their Actions (of which there are more) to avoid pitfalls from the items.
- we can inventory items so we know what we have
- we will know what we DON’T have
- we will better able piece together the results of each Turn
- we can interrogate based on possessions
I’m leaning towards a mass item claim. There are so many variables in this game that even just eliminating which items don’t exist will make analysis easier. I see too many “what ifs” if we don’t know what is definitively out there.
However, I also acknowledge that there might be a very good reason to keep item possessions secret. I just don’t see a strong reason yet.
(bolding mine)
Can you explain that for me? I’ve been looking over the rules, and can’t figure it out. Thanks.
Why?
I was too, but as investigators we both have a low chance of successful investigation with an Elf-trait magic boost. Therefore the chance of successful investigation is either 2/6 or 3/6 for both Chucara and me. We are basically two half detectives, so it’s not as unbalanced as I thought at first. We are more powerful in the sense that we can report our findings every day and don’t have to worry about when to claim since Pleonast so thoughtfully did that for us already. But I don’t think the roles are so lopsided that two pro-Town Clerics are out of the question.
I think Squid is theorizing a Paladin investigating an Assassin:
The investigation has a 3/6 chance of succeeding.
The investigation triggers a 1/6 chance of killing the Paladin via trap.
The Paladin’s armor creates the Assassin’s death if the trap fails (i.e. 5/6 chance but not independent of the trap killing the Paladin.)
Possible results:
With 1/12 probability, The investigation fails and the Paladin Dies
With 1/12 probability, the investigation succeeds and the Paladin Dies
With 5/12 probability, the investigation fails and the Assassin Dies
With 5/12 probability, the investigation succeeds and the Assassin Dies
In other words, if the Paladin investigates the Assassin, one will die, most likely the Assassin.
I thought it was something about that, but my brain was not equating the Paladin’s “protocol” ability with targeting. Thanks - your explanation makes sense.
I think we should do a public once-over of all of the unique race/class power combinations. Some of them overlap quite powerfully, including mine.
If I combine my druid wind with my human luck, I get to role twice for each magical item with a low chance that I will blow it into the Hoard.
role=roll