My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (Kanye West Album)

It would seem that the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences doesn’t quite agree with his fans here about the quality of this album. Kanye was only nominated for one award, Best Rap Solo Performance. And looking at his competition for that award, I doubt he’ll win. But he’ll raise a fuss (or make an ass of himself, if you prefer) and get some press for that, I bet.

I stand by my statement that if the man is a genius at anything, it’s marketing, not music.

The album is not eligible.

. . . yeah. lol Oh, Straight Dope. . . never change.

He already has 12 Grammys, btw. Twelve in less than 10 years. It’s not a stretch to say he’ll win some more as the years go on. But hey, anybody can do what he does, no?

He’s undeniably great at marketing, but he also has the musical and lyrical chops to back it up, IMHO.

Anyhow, as an aside, with that Grammy Nomination list. You would have thought rock died thirty years ago with the rock nominations there. (Don’t even…) I mean seriously,the best solo rock performance in two thousand frickin’ ten is a choice between Eric Clapton, John Mayer, Paul McCartney, Robert Plant, and Neil Young??? Really? Best Hard Rock performance is a toss-up between early 90s grunge bands Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Stone Temple Pilots and aging rocker Ozzy Osbourne and all-star band Them Crooked Vultures? I mean, I never paid the Grammie much attention, but I can’t believe they’re that out of touch.

I should expand - Grammys take submissions for records released between October 1, 2009 and September 30, 2010. Kanye’s album was released like two weeks ago, but ‘Power’ was released back in May, so it was eligible. MBDTF looks like an early frontrunner for nominations… for 2012.

So maybe we should all, like, check whether albums are actually able to be nominated before we gloat about them not getting any recognition.

My mistake, in the last 5 years and 14 Grammys.

2005
Rap Album: “The College Dropout,” Kanye West.

R&B Song: “You Don’t Know My Name,” Alicia Keys, Harold Lilly and Kanye West (Alicia Keys).

Rap Song: “Jesus Walks,” Miri Ben Ari, C. Smith and Kanye West (Kanye West).
2006

Rap Album: “Late Registration,” Kanye West.
Rap Solo Performance: “Gold Digger,” Kanye West.
Rap Song: “Diamonds From Sierra Leone,” D. Harris and Kanye West.
2008:

BEST RAP SOLO PERFORMANCE:
Stronger–Kanye West

BEST RAP PERFORMANCE BY GROUP:
Southside–Common Featuring Kanye West

BEST RAP SONG:
Good Life–Aldrin Davis, Mike Dean, Faheem Najm & Kanye West, songwriters (J. Ingram & Q. Jones, songwriters)(Kanye West Featuring T-Pain)

BEST RAP ALBUM:
Graduation–Kanye West

2009

Rap/Sung Collaboration: Estelle Featuring Kanye West, “American Boy”

Rap Performance by a Duo or Group: Jay-Z and T.I. Featuring Kanye West and Lil Wayne, “Swagga Like Us”

2010
Best Rap/Sung Collaboration: “Run This Town” — Jay-Z, Rihanna & Kanye West

Best Rap Song: “Run This Town” — Jeff Bhasker, Shawn Carter, Robyn Fenty, Kanye West & Ernest Wilson, songwriters (Athanasios Alatas, songwriter) (Jay-Z, Rihanna & Kanye West)
It would seem that the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences seems to be comprised of fans, too.

And I believe the “Grammy” year ends in September, so - as was explained- Kanye’s album that came out in November did not qualify for this session.

ETA What my esteemed colleague multimediac17 said :slight_smile:

Look at all that excellent marketing.

Bingo!

Listen, I’ve played in bands in the southwest US for many years. A couple were fairly successful locally (did tours of the southwest, got decent radio play locally, etc.). I’m not a musical genius, but I can and have written a catchy tune more than a few times in my life. Tunes that probably would’ve been radio hits if they had the backing and marketing.

Anybody can write a catchy tune. Not everybody has the chance, resources, or ability to market that tune to the masses and make it a hit. I came close and failed. Even now, with the internet, in the music business, it’s all about luck and connections. And very, very few of the talented people make it big.

So I guess my answer to those who say “if it’s so easy, why don’t you do it and make a million bucks?” - I actually do, but just because I can write a catchy tune doesn’t mean I’ll make a done of dough - there’s so much more to it than that.

I’m not saying Kanye isn’t talented - he is. But a musical genius - no way. And people calling him a musical genius is what created that monstrous ego of his. I don’t agree that he’s changed the landscape of popular music as much as have artists like Chuck Berry, Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, GrandMaster Flash, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Nirvana, etc. These artists are true musical geniuses that created whole new styles and genres - and yes some of them even used samples.

I don’t think it’s a requirement of being a musical genius that you have to change the landscape of music - Kate Bush, for example, didn’t really change much in the long run and wasn’t even that successful outside the UK, but I wouldn’t hesitate to call her a musical genius.

You don’t have to create a whole new genre, you just have to be the best, or one of the best, within your genre. Kate Bush was one of the best female pop singer/songwriters, and Kanye is one of the best in hip-hop, and I’d say both are geniuses without either of them turning the game on it’s head.

It’s all subjective anyway, so that’s just my opinion.

Heh. If only. Maybe your tunes weren’t quite as catchy as you think.

A bitter musician who hates a successful one. It’s all marketing of course. Old story.

And I’m not particularly a fan of Kanye.

Geniuses are rare, but I don’t think that “changing” anything is a prerequisite to being a genius. If it is, then he’s already done it anyway. Kanye is about as genius as genius gets. If anything, his ego prevents him from getting the notoriety that he deserves.

It’s funny that you mentioned the acts that you mentioned. I can’t speak about Berry and Hendrix, as they were before my time. But there is no way that any of the others are above Kanye in terms of genius. And this is coming from someone who worships the Beastie Boys. And from what I know about Berry, some short white dude taught him everything anyway. :smiley:

What I find impressive about Kanye is that he can control his ego when it comes to his creative works. In most of the tracks on MBDTF he is overshadowed by a guest performer. And most of his music videos are a lot less self-indulgent than other mainstream rap videos.

You won’t find that kind of restraint in a U2 song (or video.)

I think that’s what a lot of folks miss. If you just listen to his sound bites on the Today Show every few days or watch his drunken rantings on awards shows. . . it’s easy to think that’s all he is. But you’re totally right: aside from a few songs on MBDTF that seem to revolve around that whole aspect of egotistical fame (and really, those tracks don’t really paint it as an entirely good thing either), he really is very . . . laid back even on his own tracks. And that’s actually what makes him stick out- usually rappers “go hard” on tracks with guests so they can be the dominant person, but look at the track ‘Monster’- he’s totally over shadowed by Nicki. I honestly believe a less confident musician wouldn’t put that track on their record, just because they aren’t #1 in it.

Plus, a lot of the seemingly egotistical throw away lines on the album are actually a little self depreciating in a way. My personal favorite is: “I don’t need your pussy, bitch- I’m on my own dick!”

Well, he is a producer at heart. Who the hell knows the name of the producer? Funny thing is, in today’s music, the producer probably has the most impact on the commercial success of a song or album.

And ego is not all bad. It’s because of his ego that Kanye is fearless in terms of sexual norms. His style often transcends sex and gender. No other hip hop artist in history would ever have worn what he’s put on. While many of his lyrics are misogynistic, he has also never been shy about talking about his feelings, fears and weaknesses. IMHO, Fabolous and Drake (two of my favorite contemporary artists) owe alot to Kanye, and the barriers that he’s had the balls the cross. I really feel that he’s propelled them to levels that they would never have reached.

THIS. Kanye isn’t nearly as great as he thinks he is.

I’ve listened to the album 3-4 times the entire way through. It’s at the point now where I’m no longer getting anything new from it. I thought it was a good album when I heard it the first time - nothing great, nothing special, but I thought it was one of the better albums released this year. Not in the top ten. Maybe in the top twenty.

But after giving it a few more listens, I’d have to put it in my top five. It wasn’t until after I had given it more attention that I realized how it seemed like a lot of hip hop - not just the mainstream stuff, but even more underground work - was stuck in a rut, moving in circles. It’ll be interesting to see if this album pushes the genre into any new territory. There have been more daring and experimental albums, I think, but nothing like Fantasy, which is able to do something fresh and interesting while keeping it really, really polished. That’s what separates it from similar albums. I think a lot of that is owed to Kanye’s strength as a producer.

Still not a 10/10. I am surprised and not surprised at the same time that Pitchfork gave the album a perfect score.

And I’d like to address some of the criticism he’s been receiving in this thread, too. It seems like a lot of people are tearing the album down because of Kanye’s public persona. There’s been no legitimate criticism album from what I can tell (and please correct me if somebody’s posted something insightful as to the album’s flaws because I’d be really interested in hearing what they have to say). There’s been a lot of, “Oh, he’s no NIRVANA,” and “PUBLIC ENEMY are so much better,” and “Oh, I could totally do what he’s doing!” and “Marketing! Marketing! It’s all marketing!” which is just the sort of thing I’d expect from people who are unable to write a valid assessment of the album. It should be incredibly easy for somebody to come up with targeted, specific criticism of the album if they think it’s so shitty. I’m look for something of value here. Seriously. Give me a song or a hook or a sample and explain to me why it’s shitty, specifically. I’m not interested in your music background. Same goes for your electic and totally legitimate musical palette. Your credentials carry zero weight. Why don’t you try contributing something worthwhile instead of regurgitating the same tired bromides that get thrown around in every hip hop thread. I don’t want to bag on you for disliking the album, but you’re really not telling us anything interesting or new.

I bought it due to discussion on the SDMB and I have to say I am absolutely blown away. It’s a masterpiece.

Admittedly I am an old fart and have been listening to music since before the Beatles but I like plenty of rap and hip hop. I have plenty in my collection and I go and see hip hop live. I have MBDTF and think it has some great stuff on it, but like most rap and hip hop albums it resorts to laziness and includes some utter dross. Too many tracks that I skip to be called a work of genius.

Well, at least now I know whom to blame.

Glad you enjoy it :slight_smile: