My Boyfriend Asked Me To Consider A Prenup...Advice Please

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have been with my boyfriend for over 4 years now, basically since I began college back in 2000. We’ve had a great relationship and have been seriously considering marraige. We decided to be brave and went shopping on Black Friday to see what deals were to be had and to take a look at engagement rings while at the mall. It was a great day with lots of shopping and trying on of pretty rings. It was a great day that is until we sat down for dinner and he asked me if I would consider a prenup before getting married. He had heard all sorts of horror stories where the men had all their money taken he said and with divorce rates being what they are, it was only practical. Practical yes, but a slap in my face as well - hell yes. I mean come on here. He’s a teacher and I’m in my last year of going to school for my teaching degree - it’s not like we’re going to be making millions here.

How does the whole prenup thing generally work, anyway? Would it be like a tally system where we add up all the money I’d earned during the marraige and he’d add up all the money he’d earn during the marraige? If that’s the case then I’d surely be screwed as I plan on being a stay at home mom if finances permit.

Sorry if this doesn’t really make sense, but I’m really angry right now. I just tried talking to him about this and he basically blew me off saying that he doesn’t understand why I’m so upset. I’d like to have more information to go to him with once I calm down and can talk rationally to him about it.

2

If he’s serious about the need for a prenup due to the likelihood of divorce, it’s way, way, way too early to be seriously considering becoming a stay-at-home mom, or a mom of any kind, actually.

I’d say go for the prenup, get married, and plan on putting in a solid five or ten years on your career before you have kids. Since he’s insisting on a prenup, make sure you have separate bank accounts, and save every penny you can, if only because in the long run it would be ironic as hell if you were worth more than he was… consider that your incentive to succeed.

3

You could work up a Prenup where you would end up still getting something for being a stay at home mom. I believe a Prenup is an agreement between the two of you of how the money will be split in case you get a divorce. There really should not be any reason for you to object to a Prenup in general until you actually see what he has in mind.

4

I can see where you would be offended but the fact is that a lot of marriages fail and he wants to be protected. I wish that I would have signed one before I got married because my wife and I talk off-and-on about divorce. As long as the agreement is written fairly to cover his and her share then I don’t think it should be that much of a problem. Marriage, after all, is a legal contract.

5

Wow. I can see why you’re upset. It would certainly be bad for you if you became a stay-at-home mom and he wanted to keep all the money he’d earned, without considering that your staying at home with (hypothetical) kids helped make his life easier and saved money (no day care or nanny).

However, (and not like I know jack shit about this), perhaps he means that you’d keep what you came in with, but that the stuff that was earned or created while you were together would be negotiated differently? Which doesn’t seem so bad for either of you. If you had a car or some expensive jewelry that you bought before the marriage, you wouldn’t have to “split” that with him if things were to go south.

In my case, if I were to have a pre-nup (I’d first have to find someone to marry, but that’s a niggling detail), I’d want to keep the profits of some of the intellectual property that I did before the (hypothetical) marriage. Nothing I’ve done so far has been raking in the bucks, but who knows what might happen in the future? It would sure gripe me to see someone else taking half the income from something that they had nothing to do with—I didn’t even know them when the work was created. I’d want to avoid that.

I’m sorry that I can’t help you further, other than to say that I am sorry that this has distressed you (and I can certainly see why, from your view of things). I’m sure that someone who, you know, knows something, will come along shortly to give you more valuable advice and input! :wink:

6

But that’s always been my dream, Ethilrist. You know the big house, white picket fence, and 2.5 kids. I absolutely hate the idea that I would have to put off having kids because I’m worring about my husband leaving me - before we’re even married!

Oh and we’ve discussed the whole bank account issue and he said he wants one joint account. He doesn’t see the reasoning behind two accounts if we’re married. Me, OTOH, I wold prefer two separate accounts, just in case (God forbid).

How would that be worked into the Prenup, Lakai? Would I get an hourly rate for raising my own children, cleaning the house, etc?

I guess you’re right on this point. I was so taken aback by the mere idea of a prenup that I never really thought this part through. He just seemed so dead set on the idea of protecting his assets that I really didn’t look much beyond that.

7

Generally, they are much more common for second marriages as opposed to first marriages, for the obvious reasons. First, those in first marriages are younger and have considerably fewer assets as a rule. (To fight over later in a divorce)

Years later, both partner’s carreers have presumably blossomed and have accumulated both assets and much higher incomes. After a divorce it is much more likely for one (or both parties) to come to a new marriage with considerable assets that they accumulated before the marriage. Of course, many people marry later in life and come to an engagement with assets that they accumulated before the engagement. (having never been married)

Even younger people may have acquired considerable assets through shrewd business dealings, or more commonly through inheritence. If your hubby-to-be comes from an affluent family he (they) may be concerned about protecting familt wealth.

You didn’t tell us too much. Is he already wealthy, or has considerable assets that he acquired before? Has he, or will he, inherit other family assets that are separate from what the 2 of you have, or will, accumulate as partners?

If he’s a regular working stiff like the rest of us, and has no current assets that he wishes to protect, *(assets that would pre-date you or your marriage) * that would send an ominous message to me. IMO, if he’s asking for a pre-nup for assets that he currently hasn’t earned or acquired, than he is essentially asking for a unequal split (in a divorce) for assets that you would presumably acquire while together, in the future.

How fair is that?

I’d be highly offended if someone asked me for a pre-nup if we were basically broke, or just starting out so to speak. I’d have to think long and hard about that attitude. The request itsel would speak volumes.

OTOH, if he has some jack that he’s earned already, or family money that he has, or will have, it’s not entirely unreasonable to consider protecting those assets. (while proclaiming his undying love).

8

If you want to be a stay at home mom, he should pay you a wage for doing that. It’s only fair.

9

That’s just exactly what I was thinking. I thought prenups were usually written up when one person happens to have a large amount of assets and wants to protect losing them in the event of a divorce. If you both basically have nothing, anything you earn TOGETHER should be considered both of yours- what exactly does he hope to protect with this prenup? An unfair split of joint assets?

Man, if my husband to be had nothing and wanted me to sign a prenup, I think I’d tell him to shove it.

10

That’s just it. He has nothing and I have nothing. I think he’s afraid that somewhere down the line I’ll turn in to some raving maniac and demand his money. I just don’t have it anywhere in me to ever even consider doing this - unless of course he cheated or committed some other equally horrible offense on our marraige. In that case, all hell would break loose.

11

I’ll let a lawyer dress it up with legalese, but something along the lines of “Should we divorce all assets gained during the marriage excepting clothes and family heirlooms shall be sold at public auction and the proceeds split 50/50. The non-custodial parent shall still be responsible for state-mandated child support. Should one parent be a stay-at-home parent, the other shall be responsible for alimony.”

Me, though…I’d just say no.

12

I just talked to my boyfriend on the phone and he’s coming over so we can talk this out. He feels really bad for having upset me so much. Apparently he didn’t think so much of the prenup idea in the first place.

13

Okay, I am only in-embryo as a lawyer (6 more months!) here but from my understanding of Family Law from last semester…each individual keeps what he earned prior to marriage. What gets split during the divorce is the marital estate. Different states across the US work it out different ways-

In about 7 states both of you retain a 1/2 interest in all property earned after marriage. These are the community property states-at divorce you automatically get a 1/2 interest. At all times during your marriage you have a 1/2 claim to the property.

All other states have a common law property system. This means that each marital partner owns and controls property owned before marriage and after marriage earned separately or acquired in any other manner (like gift). What happens at divorce is that the courts may distribute “marital property” (earned by each after marriage) to ensure an equitable division of the assets. The court (unless there are local laws-consult an attorney) doesn’t get to touch “separate property,” which is what all the money/property you had BEFORE marriage.

What pre-nups purport to do is contractually opt out of these statutory schemes for something that both parties find satisfying. So (leaving aside separate issues)-what you might want to find out is WHAT your husband is afraid of losing. Is he afraid of losing investments he had before marriage? Because you can get a pre-nup that says that but most likely it just falls in line with your local statutory scheme anyway. If he wants to not lose money he makes after the marriage-well that’s what pre-nups were meant to sort of do, alimony rights etc. etc… It can’t touch child support, incidentally, which is owed to the child and not you. Oh, and by-the-by…all pre-nups have to meet contractual requirements as well as fairness stuff but my understanding of the law in this area is that judges aren’t too keen to overturn them when you’ve been represented by a lawyer.

Umm, not much more. I think it’s a bad idea to sign away your rights to equitable distribution of the marital estate if you plan to be a stay-at-home mother.

14

Oh, and if I didn’t make it clear from my post

Consult an attorney, I don’t know the local laws of your state!!! My explanation is merely based from getting an A- in Family Law which I learned out of “West: Family Law by Harry Krause.”

15

I was under the impression that a prenuptual agreement was predominately intended to protect the ownership of assets acquired prior to the marriage. The intent in this case would be to prevent one spouse from filing for divorce and then attempting to lay claim to assets brought into the marriage by the other, with assets acquired during the marriage remaining fair game for division at divorce. Am I mistaken?

16

So if without a prenup, all assets are supposed to be divided up equally, why are there so many nasty divorces then?

17

I actually did an opinion thread on this a few weeks ago.

Lady dopers. If getting married would you find a pre-nup request offensive or not?

Essentially what the Raindog said. Usually it really isn’t an issue for two middle class up and comers getting married for the first time unless:

1: The pre-nup asker has a family history where there was nasty divorce with fights over marital property and custody. Is this case it’s just simple prudence in not wanting to fight over assets in case a divorce happens.

2: While he may be striving today, there is some substantial back end money or property in his side of the family that will potenially come his way in time, and he doesn’t want this to become part of the pie in a divorce.

Per # 2 it’s possible you don’t know as much about his long term financial prospects as you may think.

18

Maybe this isn’t the kind of advice you were looking for, but I’d reconsider the marriage altogether.

As **raindog ** said, the request itself speaks volumes. Why is he so cynical about this marriage? Of course, the divorce rate is high, blah blah blah, but it sounds like he’s going into it with one foot out the door. This sort of thing can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe it’s his way of sending a message that he’s just not ready.

/been there/done that

19

Divorce is nasty because it generally involves money, sex, betrayal, emotional abuse and power.

People leverage sentimental and valuable assets as a means of exacting revenge. Throw in an unearned sense of entitlement, loathing and animosity, child custody, alimony payments, visitation rights and love/hate co-dependency and divorce can become some nasty business.

20

Divorces are nasty, simply put, because they’re divorces and therefore the breakup of a pretty important relationship.

My understanding of the general rule is that equitable division statutes only reach marital property and not separate property (in separate property states). I’m actually pretty confident on that b/c otherwise I would have failed my exam and if I’m wrong I plan to ask my school for a retun on my tuition for that class for poor teaching :). In separate property states (common law)-the court gets to use their best judgment as to what constitutes “equitable division,” which may mean that it may not exactly be 50/50 like in a community property state but apparently most judges aim for that.

If I were to make a conjecture, I think most people have an impression that pre-nups protect the “family wealth” or pre-marital assets because at divorce the courts have to spend a lot of time figuring out what is and isn’t “separate” vs. “marital” property so pre-nups spend a lot of time setting up exactly in excruciating detail what happens to be the separate property of the individual. (Otherwise it’s left to the courts and they get to decide what is and isn’t separate property-so you run the risk of having a judge decide that for you). Having done that, they then tend to move on to how to divide property earned after marriage in excruciating detail.

Then again, could be completely wrong and my school may have to turn in its ABA accreditation.