Supremes are appointed, not elected. As long as Congress confirms your appointment you can, apparently, be batshit crazy and still get the job.
I agree, the discrimination should be fought, but people should also be aware of the potential future consequences of any form of treatment, don’t you agree?
As long as this thread is touching upon the issue of mental health discrimination, I would like to mention that I don’t like hearing terms like “batshit crazy.” I understand that it was intended as a joke, and yes, I have a sense of humor. I just wish mental illness was something that people felt less OK joking about.
Yes, it could be a barrier in some fields and with some employers.
But employers should know many employees would not want to work for an institution that is so backwards. Same with sexism. Institutions that have women in positions of power tend to do better economically, so it is a double edged sword and employers deserve to know it too. Discrimination will make it harder to get ahead in life, but when people who are being discriminated against find employers who are more tolerant, they could end up being more productive firms since they do not throw out so many talented people.
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Office/Story/A1Story20090806-159556.html
“…an institution that is so backwards”…
Most of the examples I gave are not a matter of employer bias but rather mandated by regulation and law. It’s not a matter of asking a hiring party to give you a chance or overlook something, it’s a matter of being legally barred from those employment options. It is not a matter of finally a “more tolerant” employer, it’s a matter of the employer being unable to hire such a person. Until the law is changed a psychiatric diagnosis will prevent you from pursuing a career in those areas.
Then society itself is backwards. If your illness does not affect your ability to do your job, it should not be a barrier. Its no different than the olden days when women and non-whites were prohibited from holding positions of authority and power.
And the question is, do you really want to work for an employer in that situation. For some people yes, for some no. For me I don’t know if I’d even want a job with an employer like that even if it was offered.
The ADA would legally prohibit not hiring people based on health if that health condition did not affect their ability to perform the job.
Does the ADA protect people with severe mental illness?
The definition of disability in the ADA includes people with mental illness who meet one of these three definitions: “(1) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of an individual; (2) a record of such an impairment; or (3) being regarded as having such an impairment.” A mental impairment is defined by the ADA as “any mental or psychological disorder, such as mental retardation, organic brain syndrome, emotional or mental illness, and specific learning disabilities.”
Employment (Title I of the ADA)
Do all employers have to comply with Title I of the ADA?
Private employers with 15 or more employees, state and local governments, employment agencies, labor organizations, and management committees are all subject to the ADA. The ADA does not apply to the federal government; however, discrimination by the federal government or federally assisted programs is prohibited under Title V of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
Won’t argue with that!
Clearly, there are people who are incapacitated by mental illness who can’t hold any job… but we now know that there are many people with much milder forms who actually function normally with a little help. For better or worse, though, the laws/regulations have not caught up with that knowledge. Thus, we have some highly functional people who are thoroughly managing their problem who are, nonetheless, legally barred from many jobs. Whether it’s right or wrong that is the reality we operate under at present.
That is you. The situation has arisen, though, where a person either planned a career in one of those areas, or had a career in one of those areas, only to suddenly have the door slammed in their face when they dealt with a mental issue. People intent on a career in law enforcement, for example, are generally thinking “I want to be a cop” (or whatever) not “does this employer discriminate on the basis of mental illness?” when they start making plans. If a young person spends years preparing themselves for the police academy only to have clinical depression manifest after they are enrolled… well, that would be a problem, wouldn’t it?
Another problem I have seen in the aviation community is a pilot who’s been flying for a decade or three being prescribed something for a transient problem by a well-meaning primary care physician with no clue how it will affect their license. For example, a pilot who wants to quit smoking might be prescribed Welbutrin/Zyban which has been shown to have some efficacy in helping a smoker to quit. Unfortunately for the pilot, the FAA considers it to be a antidepressant (which it is) which automatically raises a red flag. If the pilot fills the prescription and takes the pills his aviation medical record is marked down with “treatment for clinical depression” regardless of why it was prescribed and he loses his license. In order to get it back, he will have to go through an extensive psychiatric work up to prove he is no longer clinically depressed, a lengthy, frustrating, and not always successful process. It doesn’t matter that it was prescribed for nicotine addiction, said pilot is permanently saddled with the label “mentally ill”.
When I went through a brief period in my life where I was so stressed I could not sleep I sought medical help. Now, the reason for that insomnia was very clear (and no, I am not going to speak of it here) and it wasn’t going to be around long - I had a problem and I was fixing it, but as is often the case the solution was going to take a couple weeks to implement. Meanwhile, I needed to get some rest. So I took a “sleeping aid” for a few weeks. Fortunately, I was smart enough to consult with someone beforehand on how that would affect my pilot’s license so when I went to my next flight physical I had all the necessary documentation to prove it was a transient episode appropriately treated and not some long term chronic condition. If I had not had that I would have lost my flying privileges for years, if not permanently.
Likewise, I am very much in favor of people seeking help, but potential consequences should be made known to the person. That might involve telling them that, as a consequence, certain jobs will not be open to them so they may plan accordingly - either don’t seek those jobs or, if there were already plans for them, seeking alternate training, employment, and careers. That also involves keeping a record so if it IS a “transient episode”, or a matter of getting some help for a specific and limited problem (the examples given are often marital counseling, counseling after a divorce, after a traumatic accident, the death of a loved one, etc.) that this can be appropriately documented and explained so as not to cause problems later on. At least society has become enlightened enough so that, for example, a cop traumatized by seeing/picking up body parts after an airline crash can seek some help without losing his job and career. This was not always the case.
That is the law/theory. The practice and reality are often at odds with it. It may not be legal to discriminate, but it still happens. The only “solution” is all too often get another job, or a lengthy court battle with a high cost in money and stress.
This is the attitude that lets this crap happen. Of course illegal things happen. But why should we as a society accept them? Why should the call be for doctors to tell their patients, and not for employers to stop breaking the law?
Anyways, I’m far more used to companies treating people who could easily sue with kid gloves, worried to fire them even if they are doing a bad job, lest they get sued.
As for what she should do: I’d stay away from the medical people until she’s been evaluated by a psychologist. Medicines for this sort of thing are overprescribed, and they don’t cure the problem, as the person has to continue to take it.
SSRIs are equal to placebos, but actual therapy seems to get as good, if not better results. IMO, medicine should be reserved for more resistant cases.
Finally a word of warning: Whatever you do, do not let them prescribe longterm benzodiazepine therapy. They are more addictive than opiates, and lose their effectiveness relatively quickly. There are people who have no problems with it, but over half do, and we don’t know how to tell the difference before hand.
“Telling someone to ‘think better’ or get a better attitude won’t fix it as the brain, the organ, isn’t quite normal”
No, but studies have shown that therapy can change brain chemistry just as well as some pills. For example, a formerly depressed person on an SSRI tends to have the same chemical profile as a formerly depressed person who went through therapy.
People seem to forget that how you think is exactly what your brain chemistry is. Why wouldn’t thinking differently alter your brain?
Talk therapy is important, and in this girl’s situation (since she likely has deep seated feelings of inferiority, low self worth and inadequacy) it will probably be really helpful for her to get individual counseling as well as group therapy with other young women who have the same problems and fears.
But depression and anxiety do have biological causes. I have noticed that sometimes I feel deeply depressed, and it goes away after I take an anti-histamine. I eventually found out histamines can contribute to depression. I had the exact same life, problems, experiences, setbacks, accomplishments no matter if I was feeling fine/happy or depressed. But when I was depressed they seemed insurmountable and oppressive. When I felt fine again they seemed manageable.
Yes, but it’s up to her doctor to decide whether or not she needs meds or therapy or whatever. NOT that there’s anything wrong at all with taking anti-depressants (I’m on Paxil for OCD), but we’re not the ones who should be reccomending them.
The examples I gave actually involve following the law. Those instances won’t change until the law changes.
As for “the attitude that lets this crap happen” - I agree, there are instances where it’s a travesty. However, each person needs to decide whether or not that’s a battle they want to fight. Not everyone has the emotional or financial resources to mount a court battle with no guarantee of success. People who get treatment for mental illness should be fully informed so they can choose which path to follow. Just as we shouldn’t recommend a drug or a particular therapy, neither should we say a person should engage in lengthy legal battles. Sometimes what is best for that person is to move on.
No, society should NOT accept bias against the mentally ill based on misinformation and bigotry, but anyone who denies it exists is foolish. Prejudice is wrong, but it is out there.
I have 3 daughters. The youngest age 32 has suffered from anxiety attacks and depression for 16 years. We have run the gauntlet of doctors, phychologist, psychyatrists, naturalpaths, meds, exercise routines, self help groups.
As her mom I try to get her to talk. Unfortunately her talking makes me feel guilty, makes me feel the need to fix things. Usually I helped with money for her meds, school, food.
Other immediate family members say she should “get over it”, snap out of it" . Makes me try twice as hard to be there for her. She also has irritable bowel concerns. She has low self esteem as she has put on weight. If she looses weight she feels terrible with pain from bowels, when she gains weight she feels better healthwise but hates herself . Sometimes she just eats the wrong things to make herself hurt.
She did 2 yrs college, then 3 yrs University (no degree) then got married, then two more yrs of college in a diff. direction. She has been living on a shoestring for 16 yrs. Marriage failed. 50,000 in student loans. Sees all her friends owing homes, successful careers. She is in a mod paying job just enough to exist on, slummy apartment. She has no health benefits and her meds cost her 1600.00 per year.
She finds she is busy at work and takes her mind off things but once home the walls close in, darkness sets in, her body aches, she gets a migraine, she either sleeps 18 hrs or can’t sleep for days on end. She has been on suicide watch a few times over the years. Then more meds.
Now they want to try shock treatments. That scares the heck out of me.
I worry when I can’t reach her, or she puts her phone picture or facebook picture as a black screen. My husband and her other siblings are no help.
I sleep poorly worrying about her. (But I worry about all three girls at different times about different things) I feel I am at the end of my rope money wise as my hubby is retiring. Emotionally I am at the end of my rope and don’t know what else to say to her. Sometimes I don’t call her for days on end because I don’t want to hear her concerns anymore, or sometimes I do call and she is feeling good and going out with friends and I think , Yeah. but it never lasts.
My friend thinks I spoilt her and gave in to her ( but if I did I spoilt all of them and the other two are not depressed) and that doctors jump too easily to label people depressed. Everyone feels down at times. So I can’t talk to her. I see my daughter trying to help herself and getting a brick wall at every turn.
I don’t even know what I am asking here. I think I just need to vent. Thank you for listening.
Since this zombie was re-animated, astro, how is your daughter doing these days?