Reading through the responses, I’m reminded that the OP is a question that comes along regularly, either on this board or IMHO, and invariably the veterans and survivors almost unanimously answer, “Yes, you should try to save the marriage.” I’ve come to the conclusion that those who ask already know the answer, but are seeking moral support to do the right (but sometimes so very hard) thing. What I love about the Dope is that you guys never let 'em down. You inevitably answer with compassion, sincerity, optimism and a complete avoidance of judgement.
With all due respect, and not meaning to offend, I don’t get the feeling that you really do get it. You may understand intellectually, but you don’t really “get” how important it really is. If you did, you wouldn’t resent it and you would move heaven and earth to try to make it happen.
For some things, you don’t need money, you just need each other. And for things you need money for, I’d highly recommend that you sit down with your budget and figure out a few sacrifices you can make to accommodate even a single weekend away.
I’ll bet you that if you sat down with her and said, “Honey, I would like to find a way for us to get away with each other. We probably can’t splurge on airfare or multiple nights, but I bet if we use our imagination we could find someplace really nice within driving distance, start out on a Saturday morning, spend one night and return on Sunday evening. If we figure out where we want to go and how much it’ll cost, we can find places in our budget to pull funds from to save up for it. For instance, we could go to the Farmer’s Market on Sundays to get less expensive produce, and I could brown bag my lunches instead of spending $6-10 at the cafeteria every day. I’d estimate this would save us at least $X over Y time, so we could plan something to look forward to around MM/DD,” you’d score brownie points out the wazoo. I can almost guarantee that if you make it obvious to her that you at least care enough to squeeze one single trip into your short-term upcoming lives, she will be so grateful you’ll be getting laid the night you bring it up.
And then find ways to get out and enjoy life that don’t cost money. Go take a hike in the mountains one Sunday. Go bring a frisbee to the park. Have a picnic, go to free concerts in the park. I’m sure there’s TONS of stuff if you really look for it and think about it.
Go get your wedding photo album, a piece of paper and a pen, sit outside where you can get some fresh air, and let yourself reminisce about all the reasons you fell in love with your wife in the first place. Then write her a love note. Even if there are currently things you don’t particularly like about her, remove those things from your mind and focus only on the incredible things she is and does. Tell her how much you admire her strength and courage. Tell her how beautiful she is, even X years later. Let your heart find a few of the butterflies that imagining a passionate kiss with her can bring.
Kindness and passion beget kindness and passion. Even if you have to kind of force it a little at first, just do it and it won’t take long for inertia to take over and you really will begin to feel it again. There will be fewer petty arguments and far less moodiness when you have a wife who’s swooning because she has a man who adores her.
Absolutely yes. I am currently getting started on my second divorce. With my first, it was BAM! it’s over and I believe to this day that we could have and should have worked through it.
With this one we have fought tooth and nail to save our marriage. We’ve done therapy, workbooks, everything. I can go through with this divorce knowing we did not leave a stone unturned. Yes, there are things coming up now that are new and raw, but at least I can go out with the knowledge that I tried, and that is making all the difference to me right now.
It sucks and I am here for you if you want to vent!
Thanks for the book suggestion and I’ll try to pick it up this week. You’re also right, I’m not sure she wants to save it. Lately she’s been planning to go visit her Mom, I’m almost sure she’s using it as a pretext for separating.
The boys mother is an addict, that’s what broke up the marriage and it’s still a point of cotention nearly a decade later. My wife has a pretty good relationship with the kids, the boys like her. My oldest is having his own personal mother issues though, and that’s definately hasn’t helped the mood of the household.
Before you do anything, I’d suggest sitting down with your wife, as calmly as possible, and asking her if she wants to save the marriage. If the answer is “no,” there’s no amount of work you can do that will save it. If the answer is “yes” or “maybe”, dig in, fight like hell and do whatever you can to stay together. The books mentioned are good resources, as is therapy.
If both of you aren’t interested in saving the marriage, it can’t be saved. One person can’t make a marriage work.
There is no such thing as “trying too hard” in a marriage. You committed to someone for life. It’s easy to think that marriage is temporary after having already gone through a divorce, but it’s not. Divorce is like jumping off a bridge. You have to resist the idea that just because it worked out once doesn’t mean it wont be a huge disaster the next time. Keep trying. If it fails, try harder.
These are the “difficult times” that you promised to stay together and work through on your wedding day.
All I can say is that people are rarely open and honest with themselves, let alone other people. She might not even know what’s bothering her, herself, so you have to start a conversation and drag it out of her. It will be hard. Don’t give up. You already realize that she has a valid perspective here, so it’s only a tiny step forward to find a compromise and to be happy.
Ask yourself this question: Do you love her? Does she love you? If the answer is yes, then of course you should try to save it. I believe that one should never throw a marriage away without trying to save it.
Now of course, if there was some sort of cheating or betrayal involved, that is a whole other story. But that is not the case here, so yes, you should try to save it.
p.s. Just curious, did you ever find out what made your wife so ill?
While this is certainly true, the answer to your proposed question might be different if she saw an honest effort on Stuffy’s part to actually rectify some of their problems and cater to a few of her new whims since her near-death illness.
I’d almost bet that if he asked her today, her answer would be ‘no’. But if he brought her a handful of wildflowers, sat down and made a plan to take her somewhere as outlined above, and gave her a love letter extolling her virtues, he’d be much more likely to get a ‘maybe’ or a ‘yes’. At which point they can start learning how to fall back in love with each other, communicate better and problem-solve successfully. No marriage can work without communication and problem-solving, and you’re not very likely to accomplish those things without mixing a little romance into the pot.
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not suggesting that the little kindnesses (pick any ones you want – they don’t have to be love letters and flowers, those are just 2 examples) by themselves will save a sinking marriage. But the lack of them will almost certainly guarantee its demise.
If he wants to win his wife’s affection back, I think he needs to start wooing and courting her again, just like he did when they were dating and he wanted her to fall in love with him.
Has someone mentioned “compromise” yet? Serious illnesses usually changes perspective for one person, where they might change priorities to pursue a fulfilling life. Your wife sounds like she experienced it and wants to share that with you. Don’t shoot down every idea she has, but help her shape it, plan it and enjoy it together. Ask for a compromise when it comes to dollars and time involved and whether the kids are included or not. Sometimes, YOU NEED TO JUST HAVE TIME ALONE WITH YOUR WIFE to recreate that intimate bond between the two of you.
I have been through a similar thing, but from her side of it. I am not sure of the age difference between you and her, but I see a couple of things that are could have an impact and some things the two of you could work through together.
You’re saying she lost 30lb. That’s a substantial amount of weight to lose, and especially if she has been fighting it all her life.
Perhaps now she is feeling more desirable and energetic than ever. Maybe she is receiving more attention from different people. It’s not to say that she’s over you or the marriage, but if she is receiving this extra attention after years of maybe not receiving it, it can be very flattering overwhelming. Trust me I know.
The other thing is … I do think it matters that the children are not hers. And I don’t mean that in a she doesn’t love them kind of way. You can love children who are not yours with all your heart and so very much, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are not yours. I am sure that if she was asked, she would also want to provide a stable home for your sons, but her needs must be taken into account too.
I was a step mother for 10 years.
I still keep in close contact with the girls, though I am no longer with their dad. Part of the reason we broke up was not that I didn’t want to provide a stable home for the girls but that I also needed other parts in the relationship. I am not a girl who expects flowers and chocolates and to be fawned over, but I sure as hell would like someone who would come out with me and my friends once in a while. And somehow he couldn’t see a way to balance that. It was with great sadness that we parted, but I had to had to do it.
If I had the time again, I would make sure that I explained what I need from the relationship in a less emotional way so that he better understood.
The point of this ramble? If you truly love each other and you want this to work, there must be a way to compromise. You and your wife could refocus on building a loving and stable home for your boys, while at the same indulging in some occasional wild times with your wife. It doesn’t have to be expensive, you just both need to make the effort.
Sorry for the delay the kids came home and I had to do family stuff and get dinner prepped.
Shayna:
You made your first post while I was editing my last so I didn’t see your post until later. It’s not as if we do nothing together. At least once a month the boys go see their mother for the weekend, or if she flakes which is unfortunately more often than I’d like they stay with my Mom for an evening or two. On those days I try to plan a date night or something but it’s hard, made even harder by all the fighting. Our financial situation is improving, by the way I work from home, and her birthday is next month, I was hoping if we could see some daylight by then that maybe we could do something like a trip to Reno or something.
nyctea scandiaca
She had a really bad strain of TB, most likely contracted from her brother who is dying of AIDS. We didn’t find this out until several months after she was diagnosed. We both thought it was the flu; that was compounded by us just moving here. Neither of us had a family doctor and the Medical Clinic sent her home twice, first with Asthma medicine then with antibiotics for bronchitis. We got lucky to catch it when we did, I kept calling doctors offices until one called back, he’s now our family physician. Anyway like I mentioned the TB medication effected her kidneys and then that was another round of different treatments.
threnodyangelfire
She struggled wit her weight years ago but long before I met her. At her heaviest before she got ill she was might have been 130lbs. At here sickest she was at 91lbs. She’s about 115 today. I don’t suspect she’s seeing anyone.
Everybody
If I didn’t still love her I wouldn’t be asking for help. She was kind and loving and supportive. She didn’t take a lot of nonsense off anybody, like me she has an old school way of looking at the world when it comes to morals and family. More than that, she took on a responsibility of helping me raise my boys when she didn’t have to. I miss that person.
I guess I was right in feeling as if you really don’t get it. Your wife has told you she wants something different from what you’ve been doing; namely, to get out more and perhaps do some traveling. I suggested a way that you could make that happen, and instead of taking it into consideration, you kind of got defensive about what you already do.
I hate to go all Dr. Phil on you, but how’s that working out for you?
You’re the one who said what you’re already doing isn’t working, so why not try something different?
And as for the fighting, just stop it. It takes two to have an argument. When you feel things starting to get heated up, bite your tongue! Take a deep breath, listen to what your wife is saying, and if you disagree, try just calmly saying something like, “I’m not sure I agree with that approach, but give me some time to consider what you’re saying and perhaps we can discuss this later and with clearer heads.” Then give her a kiss and walk away.
Then think about it. Ask yourself if she has any valid points. Find some part of what she’s saying that you actually do agree with. Contemplate a compromise you could live with to present to her. In the meantime, remind her how much you love her. Treat her with kindness and respect. And who knows, she may just come around to your way of thinking during her time away from the conversation.
Stuffy, you and the wife and the boys have always meant alot to me over the years.
Yes, years. You helped me through so much when my son was hit by that car 7 years ago and our friendship grew pretty strongly and we chatted about our kids and the deadbeat parent stuff we were dealing with.
You have been on my mind lately and a few weeks ago we actually tried to IM each other but for one reason or another it didn’t happen.
I would love to return the favor of an ear and rebuild our friendship that slowed down over the last year. I miss hearing about the wife and boys.
Please feel free to e-mail me or IM me here or MSN whenever you get a chance.
Do you think that she would be willing to go to counciling with you?
My mom gradually became a party girl while I was growing up. I think her reasons and your wives were different, though. My dad wanted to keep living and working and raising the kids as before she changed. When it became obvious that something was wrong, he suggested counciling, but my mom refused to go at all…she didn’t believe anything was wrong, and she wouldn’t budge. They divorced last Christmas.
I am just curious as to what you believe her reaction will be if you were to ask her. I hope everything works out and that your marriage fares better than my parents’ did.
Meh…I say screw it. There are plenty of other fish in the sea.
Sounds to me like between her brush with death and dropping 30 lbs, your wife has “dropped a weight class” so to speak and would rather spend her time shaking her ass.
Another vote for counselor - you are putting alot on her illness & how it changed the woman you had physically and emotionally and, at least in the OP, you are ascribing pretty much 100% of her new attitudes and the distance in your marriage to that and your kids. It maybe but, if you changed “illness” or “my kids” to “her job” or “my line dancing class” we would all say there are deeper issues and, though these are certainly stressors - the real reasons are between you and her and a counselor can help you see that, discuss that in a safe place and make sure you really hear each other.
(not saying this is you Stuffy just some possible e.g. Not her illness but you are resentful she put you through that/she is so ungrateful to to return to ‘normal’ now, not your kids but she resents the way you won’t put her first once in a while - a counselor can help you reach the real issues. Both these bogus made up issues are very common in caregiver and blended family situations and I bet a place he/she would look to turn your attention). I get you are writing on a MB and maybe you know all that.
Good for you for trying to do the hard work marriage takes.
Shayna, thank you for your posts. I don’t know if your advice is getting through to the OP or if it’s the advice he needs, but it really struck a chord with me, and applies to my marriage, if not his. Thanks.
Hi Kricket my other computer is down, this one doesn’t have messenger, the kids don’t use it. I’ll get it on when I’m done working today. It’s great to hear from you I hope everyone’s good.
Shayna:
I guess we’ll just have to disagree. We’ve been making sacrifices, and I’ll keep making them until things get better.
I’m going to broach counseling tonight. We’ll see where it goes, I don’t expect her to be hostile to it; I just don’t know how much she has invested in staying together.
Even if she doesn’t want to go now make every effort to go yourself and I’m willing to bet that she eventually starts going with you. Get some reading material mentioned in this thread then start reading it and leaving it where she can see it too. She may start to take an interest in your re-newed urgency if it’s made somewhat obvious to her that you are serious. Talk to her about your issues and how you intend to make compromises in your marriage. Talk about your counseling sessions with her and of the great ideas you’ve read in the books. If the ideas seem to come from a third party it makes it seem less like you are trying to force her to change or trying to force her to do things differently. I believe if you both hear an idea (about how to help your relationship) from a third party you both have the lightbulb go off over your head at the same time. It makes it less likely to resent the idea than if it comes from one of you, sort of like a mandate or something.
I didn’t get that from the OP. I got that she wants some adventure with her life mate. And the OP should provide it, but first the money issues and the resentment issues need to be solved.
If it’s the case that she wants out, that will come about soon enough. The other fish will still be there.