I just had to share this…yesterday I did a silly thing. I asked my mother what she thought of Leiberman. I knew the answer but just had to ask. She said that sealed it for her she was voting Bush. She wasn’t going to vote for a jew. (The only thing that keeps her Democrat is that she likes abortion.) So naturally I said something to the effect that what difference did it make where he went to church. Guess what she says to me…I’m still amazed although I don’t know why…She says…David Duke says that the Jews are responsible for blah, blah, blah in this country. Oh yeah I know what it was… promoting the cause of the blacks!..He says they want the blacks to “take over”. (Blacks isn’t exactly the name she used but you get the point.)
My brain went into shut down. I actually couldn’t even hear what she was saying by then. I said; “Ma did you say David Duke said?” The answer was yes. She’s gotten worse. She was just not this bad when we were kids growing up. You’d think that something serious would have happened to her in order for her to become this way. Well it didn’t. She wasn’t passed over for a job or admission to college or anything because of racial quotas. She’s never been the victim of a violent crime by a minority. I just don’t get it.
I hear ya Needs2know, my mom is the reverse. If the persons NOT Jewish, they’re no good, and she doesn’t think so highly of them. Maybe our moms should do lunch…
I don’t think it’s worth your time to wonder why she’s like the way she is. As a mother, that’s what I concern myself with when it comes to my mother. I understand her prejudice is within her, and I can’t change her, so I don’t. Doesn’t make her right, but it’s just the way the older generations seem to be. I see less youth being so bigoted these days, even where I live, though it’s still not gone for good, it’s definitely not as bad IMO as it was in our parents day.
Imagine my surprise when I found out the father that I love is also a racist. He would never use the hateful language your mother used, knowing how damaging it can be to people who never did harm to anyone. He has come by his racism honestly.
He doesn’t trust white people. He believes a white person would just as soon stab him in the back as talk to him. He was born in 1946 in South Carolina and he remembers. He remembers getting spit at and being treated as a sub-human. He remembers when it was perfectly alright to call him “nigger boy”.
He hates white people. All of them. He has spread this hatred to his step-children. They hate white people too, but they don’t really know why. To my step-sisters, it’s white people’s fault they can’t get a good job. It’s white people’s fault a large portion of the young men they know are in jail. To them, everything is white people’s fault.
Me, I happen to be lucky. My mother was hispanic. My grandmother raised me since I was 5. She was originally from Spain. She has blonde hair and hazel eyes. I can see that “white” people are not some monochromic blight upon the landscape of colored people (although sometimes it seems like they try hard to be).
Your mother and my father would probably be great friends, if only. . .
Hey Ike…she mentioned the black woman…I was so stunned by the David Duke comment by then that I wasn’t registering much else of what she said by then.
What amazes me is how vehemently she believes that she is right.
Funny too, I had this conversation with her yesterday morning. I played hooky from work and decided yesterday afternoon to watch “American History X” on video. I had rented it having not seen it yet. My 16 year old daughter asked me if she could watch. I knew it would be violent, perhaps graphically so, but I also knew it was about a skin head that changes his views after a stay in prison. I let her watch with me. She isn’t a baby after all and at least the violence comes with a message. She’s seen enough “I Saw What You Did Last Summer” type movies anyway. When it was over I said; “Honey, this is why I do not want you listen to some of the things Grandma says. You must not ever be rude to her just don’t take any of that stuff seriously.” She said; “I know Mama. You’ve been trying to teach us right.” Between the end of that movie and my own kid I got a little misty.
What’s a parent to do? I’m not that bright or politically astute but I know hatred and resentment will get us nowhere. Is it me or are we becoming even more polarized than ever in our society? It worries me that my children will one day get caught up in something nasty and serious. All I can hope is that they do what is right no matter how intense the pressure becomes to do what is easiest.
Well, Pinky, to be fair, I DID personally keep all your stepsisters from getting good jobs . . .
Needs, I’m just surprised it took this long for you to find out what a jerk your Mom is . . . My father was a jerk from Day One, and there was never any question in my mind. I was surprised by a fellow at work this week. He and I had been pals for about two years, and then he refers to Nathan Lane as a “fucking faggot!” OK, Nathan Lane grates on my nerves, too, but all of a sudden this office fellow has dropped into the “bigoted jerk” file in my interior hard drive. Shame, too, I can use all the friend I can find here.
My father and his mother are racist pigs, too. It’s so horrible and I’m so ashamed. However, I have made it VERY clear to both of them that if they’re going to spout hateful crap, I’d better not hear it. For several years now, they’ve respected my wishes.
Needs, I just read your last post. It’s cool that you’re talking to your daughter about it (I’m sure she’s wondered) but I have to take the “don’t be rude to grandma” comment and throw it out the window.
In the case of my father and his mother, when I heard the kind of shit they were saying, I was very rude to them, mostly because I was confident they were ruder. I would say things like, “well, too bad I’m going to donate all of the money I inherit from you to minority charities” or “gee, I suppose you haven’t met my [insert race or religion] boyfriend yet?”
For several years I dropped out of Latvian society - I told my grandmother it was because a lot of Latvians were racist pigs (which is true of the older generations). It broke her heart and she no longer feels it’s necessary to discuss race issues with me.
As for my father, I publicly berate him and point out what a loser he is - he has no reason to downtrod others. And he knows I’m right.
I’m not sure these tactics are right for you, but it would be really hard for me to just sit there and politely smile and not say anything.
My husband’s nana said a really, really racially offensive word last time we saw her, then laughed. I was beside myself. I didn’t think it was a appropriate to argue with a 93-year old woman with a depression problem, but I also felt like a heel just “letting it go.”
I just cannot imagine anyone–even a slime-hearted bigot–thinking it’s OKAY to say that stuff in front of other people. I don’t get it.
My maternal grandmother thought the PC term for black people was “darkies”. I know my dad’s views on race aren’t particularly liberal, but he keeps them to himself to avoid offending people. His grandmother was deathly afraid of Indians – she wasn’t old enough herself, but her parents and grandparents were of a generation where Indian wars occurred. My father is, by today’s standards, extremely chauvinistic but compared to his dad he’s a spokesman for equality.
It’s this sort of thing that gives me hope for the future. My wife and I are less bigoted, racist, chauvinistic, etc, than our parents and, hopefully, our kids are less so than we are. The unfortunate thing is that it takes a whole generation for acceptance to become the norm, rather than something you have to work at.
Don’t worry I don’t sit by and politely smile. But I’m an adult and my reasoning behind having my daughter be polite to her grandmother is sound. When she is a grown woman I do hope that she will stand by her convictions for better or worse. For right now I’d prefer that she not get into any kind of debate with her grandmother. She is her elder and it isn’t seemly. I also don’t hold to the notion that my mother is a racist “pig”. My mother is not a pig. Misguided, flat out wrong, but she is not evil and would not condone physical violence or hurting anyone. She’s just a little stupid about some things. And oh so willing to see things in black and white, blaming what she sees as injustice on the nearest thing. She’s impressionable. Naive in a way. Selfish to the core. Because I do see racisim as an ultimate form of selfishness. And people like David Duke and Dr. Laura count on this very human trait in order to promote their agendas.
How easy it is to take our own failures and blame others. How simple it is say that someone else is beneath us rather than do what is necessary to lift our own selves higher. As I’ve stated often enough in other threads here white bigotry toward other races is based on bullshit. There is no basis what-so-ever for a white man’s resentment toward a black in this country other than pure selfishness. A pathological desire to stay “king of the hill” and not let anyone else share in the privledges we have maintained for so long.
As for black bigotry, I can understand how a hatred towards whites could exsist. Historically African Americans do indeed have a basis for their hatred. But it will do them no good. And it nullifies the contributions of white men and women who have fought and at times given their lives for the conviction that all men should be given an equal chance in this country. I’ve wondered from time to time how swiftly the civil rights movement would have progressed without the support of white men and women of conscience. This is exactly what I mean about hate. I don’t want my children to ever think it is the right. And that means that along with teaching them that hate is wrong I must try to instill in them a sense of personal responsibility. Then they will not be thinking that their “fate” is governed by anything or anyone but their own successes and failures.
We are definately becoming more and more polarized. I’m all for political correctness, no skin off my pink nose to use phrases that don’t offend. But somehow that has swung WAY too far, where it isn’t the language that’s taboo anymore, the very CONCEPT of racial differences is taboo. And that’s the most ridiculous thing in the world. Differences shouldn’t be taboo, they should be talked about, and celebrated.
I voluneer at a preschool. At said preschool is a 4 year old who is black. She’s growing up in the whitest state in the union, and has DEFINATE questions about skin color. She’s said things to me on numerous occations, asking if being different was bad, why my skin got pink when I was in the sun too long, and how much “tanner” she was than I was. She was feeling the waters, seeing if I’d deal with her questions or give her some softball answer. I told her that no, being different sometimes was not fun, but it was ALWAYS better to be different and special than the same and boring. I told her that my skin got pink if I didn’t wear sunscreen, and that some people’s skin burns easier than others. I told her that she WAS tanner than I was, and that I was jealous, as I was all pasty-white. To which she grinned, and said “Yea, I’m chocolate brown. Kahlil (her brother) is Spanish brown.” She wanted to talk about it, and talking made her feel better. So why the hell shouldn’t she talk about it? Because some white preschool teacher from Vermont isn’t comfortable talking about differences? The kid has questions, and not answering them will just teach her that white people like to ignore racial issues. The sad part is that I’m sure the majority of teachers she’ll encounter in this state will. [/endrant]
We have people killing and torturing each other in this country over friggen skin pigmentation. Give me a break. There are SO many better things to fight over. Like country music. And Steven Segal movies.
It gets even wierder when it is a non-hateful bigotry. My grandmother was always kind of wierd to talk to about race issues. She was the kindest person in the world who never hated a soul. She would never do anything to hurt anyone, but she had some bigoted ideas. Because of the way things were when she was raised she just thought it was a simple fact that other races were different. She thought that “blacks were just not as smart” and “Mexicans are lazy”. There was no malice whatsoever just a long time, deep-rooted ignorance. She would let whichever neigborhood kid who asked to mow her lawn first do it, no matter what race they were, paid them the same and fed them(of course she always made sure she had watermellon in case one of the black kids asked, sigh). But if the kid was black, she would take extra time to point out what were flowers and what were weeds.If the kid was hispanic, she would watch out the window so he had a reminder that he had to finish the whole job.
That was why it so uncomfortable to deal with. To her it was a simple science, “those people are a litle different, so you have to treat them a little differently, but never be rude or unfair”. Finally as a family we gave up on trying to change her views, she was a 90 year old strong-willed lady, who was good at heart anyway,(and who wants to fight with grandma) but I always wished there were some way to just reprogram her.
I have a question. Why does it seem that the Black community hates the Jews? We didn’t have plantations. Besides Whoopi, I have yet to meet an Black American (this is to clarify; Ethiopian Jews can be and are Black) with a Jewish last name.
Here we are, two of the most put upon, oppressed people,
I don’t get why we can’t get it together and support each other. It boggles the mind.
By the way, for Mom: a clarification on Orthodox Jews
Most Orthodox Jews are people who keep kosher, go to temple regularly, keep the sabbath…much like you regular going church folk. I myself am Reform,and I would almost bet the really religious Jews would consider me just shy of a Christian.;j
Yeah, my grandfather is the same way. He’s not vituperative at all, but, in his mind, whenever anything bad happens with an African-American, it’s because they’re black; whenever anything good happens, it’s despite that they’re black. What’s weird is that he’s always nice and polite to Blacks he meets, and even makes an effort to use “African-American” rather than “Negro” when speaking. And, of course, pretty much all his personal experiences with African-Americans have been positive: the hard-working guys he used to work with, the polite, on-time kid that delivers his newspaper, the helpful checkout clerks. But none of those experiences changes his basic beliefs about race. I love my grandfather dearly, but he does have this mile-wide flaw that’s hard to overlook.
My father is an equal opportunity hater. Blacks, Jews, Latins of any nation, all Orientals, any “foreigner” and most WASPs. If you are a WASP, he will consider that you might be okay but he knows in his heart that you are not.
I grew up in Texas. I remember “colored only” restrooms, waiting rooms, and water fountains. I remember blacks having to sit in the back of the bus and give up their seats to any white that demanded it. I remember segregation and all its injustices. Dallas did not begin to integrate its schools until I was a senior.
My parents hired a black woman to babysit me, starting when I was about four years old. She was a woman that my mother and father had known for most of their lives. Aunt Frances taught me to read before I started school. She taught me good manners. She taught me tolerance. She kissed my scraped knees and made them well, she sang to me, she made treats for me and she basically treated me like her own child until I was about ten. Then she died and my parents would not allow me to attend her funeral because there would be nothing but “niggers” there. It had never occurred to me that she was anything less than a member of our family, even if she didn’t live with us.
From that time on, I have never understood prejudice or racism. I have never been able to understand how anyone can be hated and mistreated based solely on their color or national orign. I refuse to listen when people use ethnic slurs. I ask them to refrain and if they do not, I leave.
My mother is prejudiced against black people. She’s never thought highly of them, but when a black man got my sister pregnant and didn’t take any responsibility for the baby, it got worse. Now she’s taking care of her half-black granddaugher, yet still she talks about how black people are lazy and lack morals. Thank goodness she has enough sense not to say these things in front of my niece.
Thing is, she really loves her granddaughter. My mom isn’t a bad person and I know in my heart that she would do anything she could to help any person of any race. It’s hard to explain, but it hurts me that such a good person has this terrible flaw.
We’re all pretty uncomfortable about this, but at this point all we can say is “Mom” in that tone of voice that tells her we don’t approve. It’s good to know that my son and niece are being raised differently and this cycle will end. (We’ve also got KKK members on Hubby’s side, and my niece’s other grandparents won’t have anything to do with her because of her race).
