My wife is converting to Judaism

You are going to have to live an Orthodox life, and be part of an Orthodox community for at least a year. If they suspect that you are being frum only for the sake of the conversion, and afterwards are going to join a Conservative or Reform synagogue, they are not going to let the conversion go forward. You cannot have an Orthodox conversion if you do not want to be an Orthodox Jew.

This is what I’m a little confused about. If you were a member of a community, you would have rabbinical resources at hand, and probably even know some converts to Orthodoxy. It sounds like you are not part of a frum community, and while your wife may be interested in Judaism, is she really interested in dressing tsnius, and covering her hair for the rest of her life? Keeping a kosher kitchen, with two stoves and two refrigerators, and keeping Shabbes? not just for a year, but forever? That is the expectation, if she converts as part of an Orthodox community.

From a religious point of view, you can be married by a civil ceremony and still have a later Jewish ceremony, no problem at all.

It seems to me that, based on what you’re saying, a Reform or Conservative conversion will be somewhat easier (still, at least a year.) It’s not like conversions in Christianity or to Christianity, which basically require you to say “I believe” and are thus pretty much instanteous. (Exaggeration for the sake of emphasis.)

Judaism is viewed (certainly by Orthodox and Conservative) as more than simply “beliefs,” it’s an ethical and ritual life-style, and a set of Obligations (Mitzvot). No rabbi will convert a person unless they commit themselves to a Jewish life (for the Orthodox, that would include a commitment to keep kosher, keep all the laws of shabbat, etc.) And it’s a complicated system of rules. (I’m Jewish by birth, pretty highly educated Jewishly, over 65, and I don’t know all the Orthodox practices.)

If the purpose of conversion is to calm down your relatives: (a) that’s not going to do it, and (b) Orthodox conversion is probably impossible.

If the purpose of conversion is to raise Jewish children, then look to Reform or Conservative and Time heal your relatives’ biases.

we eloped originally, my husband didn’t really want a Jewish wife the second time round, he was previously married to a Jew, been there done that and his family isn’t observant. I decided I wanted to convert, the trinity thingy never jived with me, Judaism did.

I don’t know your particular community so it is almost impossible to answer your question. For us they were very hard on my husband, it is very difficult to keep a Jewish home if you are not on the same page.

For me it took a couple of years to do an orthodox conversion and a 16 hour written exam over two days, endless meetings, people in the community that knew me and my Rabbi spoke as my advocate. The truth is she must be sincere or you have nothing to work with. If she is about emes they will see it.,

and just in case you are going to ask, I live in Canada and converted about 13 years ago, we waited till I converted to have kids.

Isn’t going from zero to Orthodox going to be very hard and also a major culture shock for her? This seems like the most difficult possible way to get what you want. It’s too late to do anything about this, but if you wanted your family to be on board with this, you probably should have dealt with this stuff first. Not that you were wrong to put your desires ahead of your family’s desires, but you did do that and they probably got the message.

You consider yourselves married, don’t you? So why wouldn’t you say it? If nothing else this seems like a great way to hurt your wife’s feelings. You wanted to marry her regardless of what your family might’ve thought at the time, so stick to it.

I have to agree with Marley, it would hurt a wife’s feelings to not acknowledge the marriage, you know… women can be difficult :).

Simply to have Jewish children is not going to be considered sufficient reason to convert to many (most?) Othodox Jews. It is supposed to be a matter of faith. The children may convert.

As an additional note to the thread, there is no one Orthodox Jewish religion. There are many Orthodox groups with different concepts about Judaism and what qualifies someone to be a Jew.

Oddly enough, DNA studies, especially of mitochondrial DNA and the Y chromosome have demonstrated that most Ashkenazy Jews’ male ancestry is Jewish, but for most of us, the female line is not Jewish; there was a non-Jewish woman in the line. Did all those women undergo orthodox conversion? Or did they simply present their families as Jewish and no one asked further?

I once asked an Israeli how does anyone know I am Jewish? He answered that my mother was. Well how did she know? Her mother was. How did she know? It’s turtle all the way down. Finally, he told me he just knew. Incidentally, my parents were married by a JP, although they later had a religious ceremony.

I suspect that if you live a Jewish life (which I don’t, incidentally, being an atheist) and simply present yourself as Jewish, no one will ever question you on it. I am quite sure that when my parents sent me to Hebrew school to prepare for a bar mitzvah, no one ever questioned them.

Here is the list I referred to in my previous post of all the Rabbinical Council of America batei din that do Orthodox conversions accepted by the Rabbanut in Israel. The list isn’t exhaustive of every beis din in the US that would be accepted in Israel (I can’t imagine anybody questioning a convert who went through the Lakewood beis din, for example), but it’s a starting point for your research. The RCC of California even has a nice long application form (warning: PDF link) you can look at to see what kinds of questions they are expecting you to have thought about before you even approach them.

One thing I’m not sure anybody has really brought up is the cost. Orthodox conversion is not cheap. Most batei din charge hundreds of dollars in fees. Then you have to buy a lot of books, replace a big chunk of your kitchenware, throw away and replace your un-tznius or shatnez wardrobe, buy mezuzos and seder plates and kiddush cups and menorahs and Shabbos candlesticks and negel vasser sets, pay for Hebrew and limudei kodesh tutoring (many batei din require this and it can be $50/hour), and the list goes on. It usually runs thousands of dollars when all is said and done. Then, if you want Jewish children, the beis din will make you swear to send them to Orthodox schools, so add private school tuition to all of this.

I think you really need to do more research before you and your wife take any steps on this because I don’t feel like you really know what you’re getting into. An Orthodox conversion is not something to be done lightly, in a rushed manner, or for the wrong reasons. I personally have been struggling with whether or not to do it myself for about 8 years now and still don’t have a satisfactory answer.

I know Orthodox Jews who consider it a very terrible thing for a man to have children with a gentile woman-- not that this means they would support an insincere conversion, they just don’t think a man should ever consider a relationship with a gentile woman.

When my husband was in Iraq, I spent quite a lot of time working with an Orthodox community, first doing some sign language interpreting for them, and then some computer work. I dressed tsnius when I worked with them, and followed all their customs, because after all, they were hosting me, and were very kind to me. They probably knew I wore pants and short sleeves at other times, but I do keep kosher, and at the time I was shomer Shabbes to a much greater degree than I am now (for example, I had timers on my coffee makers and crock pots, and a Shabbes lamp in my bedroom) so I’m pretty familiar with how very observant Orthodox communities work. When I visit my cousin who is Modern Orthodox, I wear my tsnius clothes. My aunt and uncle are very observant, but don’t consider themselves Orthodox. They daven together at home every day (we did as a family when I lived there, albeit, very abbreviated on school days) but my uncle doesn’t lay tfillin, nor wear tzitzis, and my aunt doesn’t cover her hair-- she does dress tsnius for shul, though.

That’s just a little about my background, so people know that I have some personal experience with living Orthodox.

FWIW, a sincere conversion was a simcha, and assisting a person who was in the process of conversion was considered a mitzvah, once it was clear that the person was sincere. There were a couple of women who were in the conversion process when I was hanging out with this one community, and after a number of months, when they had accumulated a lot of Jewish learning, and would often stay for Shabbes (in order to have Shabbes with a family) with the same family I was doing computer work for (they hosted a lot of conferences, which is how they had initially contacted me as a Jewish sign language interpreter). They really cared about these women, and believed in what they were doing, and along with another family, threw a huge party when they completed their conversions. Basically, they treated the women like baal t’shuvah, once they accepted their intent was sincere.

If the OP and his wife want a frumer life, then they need to live that way. If she is interested in a more typical kind of American Judaism, then they should join a Conservative or Reform synagogue (actually, she will have to declare an intent to convert for them to join a Conservative shul, I think, because there is some kind of rule that only Jews can be members of Conservative synagogues). You don’t even have to be Jewish to join a Reform synagogue. I have known of people who joined because they were thinking about conversion, and sometimes took years to make up their minds, and were members for all those years; a few even eventually decided not to convert. I understand that won’t make the OP’s family happy, but it may at least provide a platform for Jewish learning and living for their children, so that if they wish to be Orthodox themselves someday, a beit din may judge that they lived Jewish lives to the best of their ability, if any of them are boys, that their brises were kosher, and may affirm their childhood learning as sufficient, so that they can proceed to mikveh right away. Similar to what happened to my cousin’s wife who was adopted.

I don’t think I could fill out that application to convert. I’d be stuck at “Describe your philosophy of life”. I guess it’s a good thing Mom’s jewish already.

You’re in!
:slight_smile:

Gooble gobble, one of us!

You might be surprised how nitpicky people can be. My ancestry is Jewish on both sides as far back as anyone knows. One of my cousins married a nice Israeli boy a couple of years ago, in his hometown. Before the rabbi would agree to perform the wedding, he had to satisfy himself that my cousin qualified as Jewish enough to be married as a Jew in Israel.

Of course, in the U.S., vital documents, etc. don’t list your religion these days, and how many 4th-generation American Jews have the documentation to prove that their maternal line is Jewish according to Orthodox standards all the way back? We sure don’t, and the only living person in my cousin’s (and my) maternal line who was raised Orthodox is my 97-year-old grandmother, whose brain doesn’t work so well anymore anyway. The Israeli rabbi handled this by interrogating my aunt by phone about family oral history, etc., and apparently my aunt told him enough stories about how my great-grandmother hand helped prepare bodies for burial that he believed that my cousin was Jewish enough and allowed the wedding to go forward.

I like Judaism.
The purpose of life is to make the world a better place.
Many Jews do not believe in an afterlife. The Conservative Rabbi in New Hampshire had no problem with my being agnostic. “I believe even atheists come to Judaism.”
Many, many people came to our wedding, people who did not know me. Many women were in the kitchen preparing food.
A woman was saying kaddish, and the Rabbi asked me to attend. My step daughter went with me, to help me with the Siddur.
I was disturbed by the number of women I did not know asking me if I were circumcised. I told my Wife that if any other woman asked me that, I would yell at her across the room, “Leslye! I have to do WHAT?”

Wow.

So I wouldn’t have a chance of proving I am Jewish to them? I am the oldest living member of my ancestral family and, as far as I know, none of my ancestors practiced orthodox Judaism. My parents joined a reform synagogue late in life, but that was to be members of a community rather from any religious belief. It is true that my father’s mother tongue was Yiddish, since his parents came over as adults and never spoke more than broken English. But my mother didn’t even have that as her parents immigrated as a 1 year old and a 13 year old.

On the other hand, the Lubavitchers come around every year with tiny gifts and we have a small pischke that we sometimes put some coins in and give them.

I’m not Jewish. I was born into a family of ultra-reform Jews. I had a bar mitzvah under the auspices of those Jews. Earlier in this century they were non-practicing Jews. My fathers parents moved from the US to Israel in the early 50s. They and a few others came to this country in the first half of the 20th century. Nearly all the rest of my relatives were killed by the Nazis for being Jewish. If I wanted to be Jewish I’d be pissed if someone said I wasn’t.

There’s no definite answer about who is or is not Jewish. Most Jews will agree about some circumstances that make someone Jewish. All Jews have never agreed about anything. It’s one of the commandments I think.

Why do you see so many older people at church/synagogue? Is it because now that their kids are raised & they’re retired from working they have the time for it; or is it because they’re like high school/college kids in the last week of the semester - cramming for finals? :wink:

Seconded. I’ve also never heard a Jewish person use that word without it being used in utter contempt. And I’ve only heard it used a few times even in that context. At least in my experience, 99% plus of the times I’ve heard “shikseh” and “goy” being used are by gentiles trying to say what they think Jewish people would, but don’t actually, say.