[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
As an adult you have more skills, experience and freedom to deal with your problems, as well as generally more emotional stability and less violence ( Have a bad boss or co-workers ? When was the last time he/they beat you up ? ).
[/quote]
As an adult, you have the option of quitting your job if the bullying at work gets too bad, or of moving if someone in your neighborhood is bullying you. Teenagers who are being bullied don’t have those options.
Absolutely. I like being in my 30s so much more than I liked being a teenager, there’s no comparison. I wouldn’t go back to being a teenager for millions of dollars.
[QUOTE=KGS’s cite]
How can one explain the fact that the high school boys responsible for the Columbine massacre both had married parents? There are innumerable cases that demonstrate the sickness of young children who have been reared in nuclear families.
[/QUOTE]
I dunno, how about we compare them to the vastly more innumerable cases of nuclear-family kids that didn’t go on shooting sprees?
[QUOTE=Lightray]
The girl attended Immaculate Conception
[/QUOTE]
Oh god, that was my grade school*. I read this story last night and was halfway into it before realizing it happened in the town I grew up in. My parents belong to that parish. How awful.
(*Over 20 years ago, when my graduating 8th grade class had 10 students. the area has grown a lot since then)
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Yeah, life was so much better before the 20th Century. Or at least shorter, so you didn’t have to suffer it as long.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, there’s plenty of advantages to living in a post-industrial society. I’d much rather live in a world that provides modern medicine, the Internet, and toilet paper. But I’d posit that the multi-generational family structure of pre-industrial, agrarian civilization was far healthier than the isolated 2-parent system we have today.
There is hope, however. Traditional nuclear families are on the decline – thanks to the economic slowdown and ballooning house prices, more children than ever remain living at home until well into their 30’s, even getting married and raising families under the same roof and living with the same people they grew up with. The success of immigrant groups (including the controversial issue of illegal aliens) can be attributed to their non-traditional family structure – uncles & aunts, siblings, and grandparents all live under the same roof. Human society continues to evolve, and hopefully one day the concept of “nuclear family” will become a footnote in history.
No, what we should do is compare the trends of school shootings, teen suicide, and general sociopathic behavior among people raised in “traditional” family settings, versus those raised in non-traditional, multi-generational families. (Has such a study been done? I’m still looking for one.)
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
It was this nonsense about how life is so much tougher for adults, and this alone that made me seriously consider suicide as a teen. I would have been wrong to do so, because the people who said that life is harder for adults were wrong. Telling kids who consider their life worthless that it only gets worse is stupid unless you are trying to talk them into suicide.
[/QUOTE]
Amen. I was never suicidal, but I have to wonder why given
–how much high school sucked
–those were supposedly the ‘best years of my life’
If high school is going to be the best time of my life, how much will adult like suck? Fortunately, I lived long enough to find out how much of a lie this is.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Lovely straw man you got there. Your analogy is flawed, though, because Terry Shiavo wasn’t clinically dead yet.
[/quote]
The analogy is comparing people who have the nerve to claim to speak for those who can’t.
Whether they’re dead or alive has nothing to do with it.
No, I’d have preferred that (a) her neighbors hadn’t made up this hoax to begin with, in which case she would have never had this pain inflicted on her to begin with. And failing that, (b) that she lived them to see them exposed as frauds, and that the emotional pain they inflicted on her turned out to be transitory.
There were all sorts of better possible futures for this girl than either death or unending pain.
[QUOTE=KGS]
No, what we should do is compare the trends of school shootings, teen suicide, and general sociopathic behavior among people raised in “traditional” family settings, versus those raised in non-traditional, multi-generational families. (Has such a study been done? I’m still looking for one.)
[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you’ve already made your conclusion, even in the absence of such evidence.
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
That the family is comfortably “middle class” doesn’t mean she couldn’t be following a pathology that’s more common in lower socioeconomic classes. It’s like talking about the link between smoking and lung cancer - the more you smoke the more likely it is that you will develope lung cancer, but there will be people at both ends of the spectrum who represent outlying data points> That is people who never smoked who get lung cancers typical of smokers; and other people who smoke like an industrial chimney who never express any ill effect.
Saying there’s a link between pre-conditions and a pathology does not exclude people from outside that set of pre-conditions from exhibiting that pathology.
[/QUOTE]
Also, there’s a reason why they call it socio-economic class. It’s not just a matter of income.
[QUOTE=RTFirefly]
No, I’d have preferred…(b) that she lived them to see them exposed as frauds, and that the emotional pain they inflicted on her turned out to be transitory.
[/QUOTE]
Do you really think “Josh Evans” would have been exposed as a fraud if Megan didn’t kill herself? Keep in mind, nobody knew that this boy was a hoax until weeks after Megan died – the mother responsible even attended Megan’s funeral, for fuck’s sake. It wasn’t until one of the other adults responsible felt guilty enough to step forward that the hoax was revealed. Would she have stepped forward if Megan were still alive? I don’t think so.
I don’t know what sort of compromise you made to convince yourself that your life is better now than it was in high school, but that’s not important. All I can say is that you’re making one HELL of a mistake in assuming that her life WOULD have turned out better, or even COULD have turned out better. I’ve seen plenty of situations where miserable children grow up to be miserable adults, and ultimately become a financial drain on society, or continue the cycle of abuse via drugs, religion, bullying, or satisfying their own emotional needs at the expense of their own children. You know the kind of people I’m talking about, right?
I won’t deny that there are SOME children who manage to break the cycle of abuse, and we could argue all day long over how commonplace that is. But that’s a moot point. I’m talking about “zero tolerance” here. Our society already has “zero tolerance” policies with regards to drugs, school violence, and other types of aberrant behavior. We should apply the same zero tolerance policy towards parenthood itself – or dispose of the whole “zero tolerance” idea altogether. One or the other. It’s utter hypocrisy to have it both ways.
(Incidentally, I did watch the CNN report last night where they interviewed Megan’s parents, and I found it encouraging how Tina Meier expressed remorse over the final conversation she had with her daughter. Therefore, I have much more sympathy for Megan’s parents now than I did before. Just thought I’d mention that.)
[QUOTE=KGS]
I don’t know what sort of compromise you made to convince yourself that your life is better now than it was in high school, but that’s not important. All I can say is that you’re making one HELL of a mistake in assuming that her life WOULD have turned out better, or even COULD have turned out better. I’ve seen plenty of situations where miserable children grow up to be miserable adults, and ultimately become a financial drain on society, or continue the cycle of abuse via drugs, religion, bullying, or satisfying their own emotional needs at the expense of their own children. You know the kind of people I’m talking about, right?
[/QUOTE]
Good lord you’re one hell of a pessimist. Ever think that maybe, for some of us, life genuinely is better now that we’re out of that hell-hole we call high school?
For as long as someone is alive, there’s always the possibility that their life will get better, especially for a teenager who still has years of personal development and maturing ahead of them, and is surrounded by people with little better to do than tease them. The same can’t be said for someone who’s dead.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Keep in mind, nobody knew that this boy was a hoax until weeks after Megan died – the mother responsible even attended Megan’s funeral, for fuck’s sake.
[/QUOTE]
Well, nobody except for the mother who created it, and the dad who also knew and at least one of her daughter’s friends who carpooled with them. Would you put money on her being the only kid who knew? I sure wouldn’t.
[QUOTE=KGS]
I don’t know what sort of compromise you made to convince yourself that your life is better now than it was in high school,
[/quote]
Oh my god, but it IS so much better than it was in high school. I have to laugh that you would suggest that I’m fooling myself for thinking so. Living with my parents, going to Catholic school full of people I despised, all the hormones, having braces… yeah, it’s much better now. Going to college really made a huge difference in my life, for the better. You don’t know that wouldn’t have happened to Megan.
Of course it COULD have turned out better. It’s not a mistake to think that the misery of childhood could have resolved itself as she matured, learned more coping skills, etc. Seems like an excellent chance that she would have. I can’t believe you’re so sure she was doomed.
For every one of those, there are a ton of people who will tell you how much they hated middle school or high school, and laugh about their childhood misery from the perspective of their much-improved adult lives. You know the kind of people I’m talking about, right?
Megan was abused? What are you talking about?
I really cannot fathom the level of venom and negativity towards this dead child you’re spouting here. You seem so sure she was just going to be a ruinous drain on society with no hope of recovery. I know so many wonderful people who were miserable growing up but who are happy, functional people now. Growing up can do wonders for a person’s outlook.
[QUOTE=Anne Neville]
As an adult, you have the option of quitting your job if the bullying at work gets too bad, or of moving if someone in your neighborhood is bullying you.
[/QUOTE]
Or calling the police to arrest them if they actually attack you. It’s interesting how fast the majority of the violent bullying vanishes when you get old enough that it tends to be treated as assault and not shrugged away as “kids will be kids”.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Umm…let me aid you in correcting your obviously deficient reading comprehension skills: Care to try again??
[/quote]
Wow. You truly are a jerk. The woman called her daughter, not from right next to her, but from a distance and told the girl to log off the site. The daughter did not do that. When the mother returned home, she then dealt with it at that point.
[QUOTE=Monty]
As I said, you obviously have no compassion.
[/QUOTE]
I think he has compassion, but what he lacks is brains. What he has plenty of is a dark side that he refuses to shed some enlightening on.
It’s really sad, when you think about it. Imagine going through life thinking that high school sucks and the only solution is suicide. Imagine being an adult and those high school years were your high point. That’s the sign of someone trying really hard to be miserable.
KGS, please tell us that you’re just going through a phase, and this is not how you are 24/7/365 for decades at a time. Surely you’ve had at least one or two times in your adult life when you’ve smiled or laughed or have valued yourself. Count them up. How many do you get? One? Five? Two hundred? A thousand?
Seriously, if you really think that all of life is nothing but misery, seek help. I mean it. If you don’t, please heed this advice – and I want to make it clear that I’m not wishing death on anyone, least of all a fellow Doper – if you decide that life is not worth living, and no one else’s is, start with yourself. Please. Do not decide to “cleanse the world” by bringing a rifle to the top of a book depository.
But I’d posit that the multi-generational family structure of pre-industrial, agrarian civilization was far healthier than the isolated 2-parent system we have today.