[QUOTE=KGS]
Is THAT what this is about???
[/QUOTE]
I think that’s what this has been about for the last page or so.
Can you clarify what “it’s” refers to? I can’t speak for the rest of the readers, but I read it as “I can’t help thinking that maybe [Megan’s death] was for the best,” and that was reinforced by some of the things you said about life being so hard and not getting better as an adult.
We’ve had some pretty dense bricks on the boards before now, but I can’t help thinking that KGS has reading comprehension at the level of ‘See Spot run’. I think this has gone way beyond a ‘minor breakdown in communication’, and not on our end.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Can you clarify what “it’s” refers to? I can’t speak for the rest of the readers, but I read it as “I can’t help thinking that maybe [Megan’s death] was for the best,” and that was reinforced by some of the things you said about life being so hard and not getting better as an adult.
[/QUOTE]
Think of it this way – if Megan were still alive, “Josh Evans” would still be out there, and the people responsible for this tragedy would still be passing themselves off as functional members of the community. It’s too bad it had to happen this way, but sometimes it takes the death of one innocent to save the lives of thousands.
Please stop assuming that her life was guaranteed to get better. Yes, maybe it would have. But life doesn’t always get better – don’t believe me? Check out your local jail, mental hospital, or the alley behind the church where homeless people live and crack addict babies are born. Better yet, check into their histories, the families & schools where they grew up. Find out how they got to where they are. That is, if you can get their attention long enough to hold down a conversation, or find some mentor from their earlier life who doesn’t blame easy targets like drugs, video games, or Marilyn Manson.
You know something? I’m glad we had this little conversation. Because I’m reminded now that I’m still alive, and I can still affect a change in this world. Who knows? Things have actually been on the upswing lately. And I’ve made it this far without compromising my talents, my visions, or my knowledge of the truth. And that makes me a lot better off than those of you who gave up your youthful ideology for blissful conformity many years ago, so long ago that you don’t even remember what you sacrificed.
[QUOTE=Sleeps With Butterflies]
I suggest you pull your head out of your ass and consider that maybe you’re too far gone to be a productive member of society.
If you haven’t learned these lessons already in life, perhaps it’s for the best if you’re not with us anymore or had been aborted in the womb.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. :eek: Thanks for the advice…Josh.
[QUOTE=KGS]
And I’ve made it this far without compromising my talents, my visions, or my knowledge of the truth. And that makes me a lot better off than those of you who gave up your youthful ideology for blissful conformity many years ago, so long ago that you don’t even remember what you sacrificed.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, wow – we’re in the august presence of a free proud brilliant rebel! The Angst King himself!
Bow down, all ye conformist fools who grovel before him!
[QUOTE=Frylock]
I’d say being without internet access is a serious handicap.
But can’t you just lock the computer somehow so they can’t log in when you’re not around?
I know kids these days got tha mad skillz, but even if you have to just use a new password every day or something, isn’t it possible to keep someone from logging in just by using the operating system’s login-password feature?
[/QUOTE]
You can add a password all he way back to bio so it don’t even get a chance to boot up windows or your os. Only real way to get around that if u dont know the password is to take the battery out of the motherboard to reset it and i doubt the kid is going to know how to do that.
BTW i cant beleav the amount of people on here that want to physically want to harm the woman pretending to be that boy. I’m not say what she did is wrong but does that make you some degree a bad person want to harm another just because they have done wrong.
Or the Angry Young Man, Do you listen to that over and over.
KGS you have been argueing that she is better off dead and among your reasons have been that she would run up huge doctors bills, that she would be a drain on society when she was older and, in your opinion, odds are never got better.
Quit being a weasle.
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
Oh, wow – we’re in the august presence of a free proud brilliant rebel! The Angst King himself!
Bow down, all ye conformist fools who grovel before him!
[/QUOTE]
No thanks, I prefer to stand. 
[QUOTE=KGS]
Wow. :eek: Thanks for the advice…Josh.
[/QUOTE]
Oh don’t act so shocked. I used your comment (quoted below) about Megan to write mine about you.
It doesn’t go unnoticed that you are very, very selective with what you choose to respond to. Just throwing that out there in case you’re wondering if people are buying your load of BS. I must say that I like how you’re feigning shock that we’ve had a “breakdown in communication.”
[QUOTE=KGS]
As tragic as this situation is, I can’t help thinking that maybe it’s for the best. If Megan was depressed since third grade (and five years is a LONG time for a child), and she was never given the medication or the psychological tools necessary to build her self-esteem and improve her appearance…what chance does she have as an adult? Seems like she probably saved her parents tens of thousands of dollars in therapy bills, not to mention the taxpayer burden.
If I were to point the finger at anyone, it would be Megan’s parents. Not to suggest they caused her problems, but they certainly appear indifferent to her psychological needs.
[/QUOTE]
Bolded for asshole-emphasis. Those are YOUR words. You’re now trying to act as if the “it” in question is that “Josh” is no more? Grow a set. You said it, don’t slink away now and pretend you meant something else.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Bullies don’t target others randomly. They prey on the weak and helpless, particularly kids with low self-esteem. If Megan were a truly healthy person, this never would have happened…or at least, it wouldn’t have happened to her. “Josh” and his allies would have targeted someone else.
[/QUOTE]
“Josh” was CREATED to target her. CREATED for MEGAN. I realize in your word twisting world the situation might seem different, but here in the real world it makes no sense that they’d target someone else. Nice job with the not-so-subtle blaming of the victim.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Still, sometimes I wonder why I even bothered. Childhood is rough, but adult life is even rougher. Sometimes I think it would’ve been better for everyone if I had jumped in front of a school bus, like I often fantasized about. Except, at the time, I didn’t have the self-control to do even that. It sure would’ve been a lot less expensive for everyone involved, in the long run. (Except for the psychiatric industry – they sure made fucking fortune off of me!)
[/QUOTE]
Wait, were you talking about the “it” of being glad Josh was gone with this personal anecdote? Or was this before you changed your story and was still talking about Megan being dead being for the best?
[QUOTE=KGS]
Oh, I have plenty of compassion. I’m just siding with Megan on this one. For better or worse, she is free of pain, and she will never be bullied by anyone ever again. (Unless you believe in reincarnation…which I don’t.) But that’s all the empathy I’m willing to expend on this random, chaotic event.
[/QUOTE]
Mr Empathy, here we find you again showing us how Megan is better off dead. Also, do you get that this wasn’t a random event? “Josh” didn’t happen upon Megan. An adult created Josh to fuck with her. That’s random?
[QUOTE=KGS]
So what are you saying? It’s better that she continued living her life suffering in unnecessary emotional pain? What a nice guy you are.
[/QUOTE]
More of your stupidity defending your view of her death. Or wait, is this the “it” of being glad “Josh” is gone from MySpace?
[QUOTE=KGS]
All I can say is that you’re making one HELL of a mistake in assuming that her life WOULD have turned out better, or even COULD have turned out better. I’ve seen plenty of situations where miserable children grow up to be miserable adults, and ultimately become a financial drain on society, or continue the cycle of abuse via drugs, religion, bullying, or satisfying their own emotional needs at the expense of their own children. You know the kind of people I’m talking about, right?
I won’t deny that there are SOME children who manage to break the cycle of abuse, and we could argue all day long over how commonplace that is. But that’s a moot point. I’m talking about “zero tolerance” here. Our society already has “zero tolerance” policies with regards to drugs, school violence, and other types of aberrant behavior. We should apply the same zero tolerance policy towards parenthood itself – or dispose of the whole “zero tolerance” idea altogether. One or the other. It’s utter hypocrisy to have it both ways.
[/QUOTE]
More of your nonsense about how only SOME children manage to better their lives after teenage trauma which, I suppose, is to defend your position that she’s better off dead. But wait, you were SHOCKED that we’ve all misinterpreted what you meant.
Also, zero tolerance is a lovely buzzword created to sound like something special is being done. Just like the “war on” terror, drugs, etc. Zero tolerance is working so well :rolleyes: with regards to drugs, school violence, etc so you want to apply it to parenting? Oh boy! That’ll fix it!
[QUOTE=KGS]
Is THAT what this is about??? Because I never said that. I believe my exact words were: “I can’t help thinking that maybe it’s for the best.” That’s different than what you said. I’m just attempting to shine a little perspective on what’s admittedly a tragic situation. After all, the person we’re talking about is already gone. No amount of hang-wringing or recreational outrage will change that fact.
Jesus Fucking Christ. No wonder wars get started over such minor breakdowns in communication. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
I wish it was summertime. The wind off your furious backpeddling would create a lovely breeze for everyone to enjoy.
[QUOTE=RTFirefly]
Things can change fast when you’re a teen. One year, you may think your life is hopeless and death would be an improvement, and the next year, things may have fallen together for you, and life’s amazing.
[/QUOTE]
Hell, I remember having those feelings change on a day-to-day basis. I could go between “nothing can keep me down” to “fuck you all, I’m staying in my closet till I’m 30” in about 15 minutes some days.
There were times when I’d get into such a comfortable depressed rut, that I’d get uncomfortable when I felt happy. I was used to depressed, I was comfortable with it - I wouldn’t say that I necessarily sought out extra torture for myself, but I most definitely would relive bad moments in my head, further convincing myself that everything sucked and always would. I can understand why this girl went to MySpace, whether it was to try and make new friends and try to improve her life, or it was to further prove to herself that she was pathetic - depression isn’t rational, it could have been both at once. I’m just sorry she couldn’t find her way out of her depression.
[QUOTE=KGS]
Interesting. This girl suffered from depression & anxiety disorders, attempted suicide at least once before,
[/QUOTE]
Over here in the real world, talking about it does not equal attempting it.
[QUOTE=KGS]
And I’ve made it this far without compromising my talents, my visions, or my knowledge of the truth. And that makes me a lot better off than those of you who gave up your youthful ideology for blissful conformity many years ago, so long ago that you don’t even remember what you sacrificed.
[/QUOTE]
What does this mean, exactly? That people who had a sucky adolescence but who are happy now must have sacrificed their “youthful ideology” for “blissful conformity” in order to be happy?
Lemme clue you in to something: you can be yourself and be happy too. I think that’s what growing up is supposed to teach you. Not everyone learns that, and not everyone feels that way every day, but many people do pull is off semi-successfully, without becoming a mindless adult drone. You sound like Alison from The Breakfast Club: “When you grow up, your soul dies.” :rolleyes:
Hey, John Hughes, give it a rest. This is a piss poor rationale for it being OK that Megan died.
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
Which says to me that they are trying to spin the story to sound like they were great parents who were totally in control, but everything is entirely the fault of the other folks.
[/QUOTE]
Here’s where I think the two of you have a disconnect with the rest of us. It may be true that had Megan’s parents known that some sick ADULT fucktard down the street was messing with their daughter, they could have done something “more”, but it’s disingenuous to the point of absurdity for you to point a finger at the parents for not doing anything about the situation. They did not know that an adult was actively and maliciously trying to hurt their child emotionally. It’s nothing any reasonable adult would ever suspect. The parents sound like they were very responsible with their daughter and this tragedy only proves that in this world parents absolutely cannot protect their children in every way possible.
In this case, I do believe that everything is the fault of the other adults. The girl had problems, but she was pushed over the edge by a damned adult who fucking knew better. Place the blame where it belongs. No wonder people cannot take personal responsibility for themselves any more. There are too many idiots in the world helping them point fingers everywhere else.
[QUOTE=Jaade]
Here’s where I think the two of you have a disconnect with the rest of us. It may be true that had Megan’s parents known that some sick ADULT fucktard down the street was messing with their daughter, they could have done something “more”, but it’s disingenuous to the point of absurdity for you to point a finger at the parents for not doing anything about the situation. They did not know that an adult was actively and maliciously trying to hurt their child emotionally. It’s nothing any reasonable adult would ever suspect. The parents sound like they were very responsible with their daughter and this tragedy only proves that in this world parents absolutely cannot protect their children in every way possible.
In this case, I do believe that everything is the fault of the other adults. The girl had problems, but she was pushed over the edge by a damned adult who fucking knew better. Place the blame where it belongs. No wonder people cannot take personal responsibility for themselves any more. There are too many idiots in the world helping them point fingers everywhere else.
[/QUOTE]
Oh for goodness’ sake, I don’t for one moment deny the fact that what the other people did was absolutely awful. I said this fact multiple times and I have no idea how many other ways I can say it.
Look, when I was a teenager, I of course had drama with my friends- ohmahgawd my world is ending everyone hates me and no one will ever love me again and I’ll always be alone and and and and and OHMAHGAWD drama. Everyone does- it’s part of the instability that comes with being a teen, but most of us learn from it and grow. That said, whenever my mom knew I was having drama with people- whether self induced or otherwise- she would intervene in that she would stop me from being further involved. If that meant her banning me on the computer so I couldn’t chat, email, and MySpace them- she did. If that meant her taking away my cell phone- she did. If that meant her hanging up when they called the house- she did. Why? Because she’s an adult who could see that the drama was totally not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and she knew that teenage drama blows over in about 22 hours (something that 14 year old me couldn’t even fathom, for my world- you see- was over).
I’m not saying the parents are vastly responsible for what happened at all. I’m simply saying that perhaps some of their actions were less than stellar decisions. Certainly, that is a fact that is easier to state now, but I just can’t imagine a parent of a mentally unstable girl letting her get involved in an imaginary relationship with “some boy” online. Look, even if he WAS a real kid, he’s a kid online and how on earth could they be so ok with her getting attached like that? Further, if you see her getting too attached or upset, why log her on to the computer?
All that said, I again do not blame them. I hope that their mistakes (which are there, even if they are on the minor side- and honestly, I find it strange that everyone is saying other wise) can set an example for other parents who have kids with similar issues that their daughter did. There were a ton of factors in their daughter’s death, but I imagine parents hope they can control as much as possible. I don’t even know if that last little paragraph made sense. . . probably not.
And again, I don’t think she’s better off dead. I do think what the other parents did is atrocious and they deserve the most strict punishment they can get. I hope every child in that school can now understand what exactly are the horrible effects of bullying on already hurting kids (and even the healthy ones). I hope that somewhere, some parent was watching the Today Show just like I was, and I hope that parent will realize they need to pay a little more attention next time their teenage daughter is getting emotional in front of the computer screen (rather than just letting it run its course). I hope that Megan’s parents can overcome their grief, though I’m sure that will never happen (how could it?).
[QUOTE=KGS]
[QUOTE=Zebra]
So you’re just going to totally ignore Fuji’s posts about your ‘cites’.
[/QUOTE]
If you’re not satisfied with my cites, do your own fucking research.
But whaddaya say we end this hijack right here, ok? Sorry for being off-topic.
[/QUOTE]
Well, how’s about you actually respond to my analysis of your cites, then? What with this thread apparently winding down, anyway, I don’t see much risk of a hijack at this point.
While you’re at it, maybe you could also shed some light on how you arrived at this conclusion:
[QUOTE=KGS]
The success of immigrant groups (including the controversial issue of illegal aliens) can be attributed to their non-traditional family structure
[/QUOTE]
Or was Miller correct in his analysis of your character? (see post #135)
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
Oh for goodness’ sake, I don’t for one moment deny the fact that what the other people did was absolutely awful. I said this fact multiple times and I have no idea how many other ways I can say it.
Look, when I was a teenager, I of course had drama with my friends- ohmahgawd my world is ending everyone hates me and no one will ever love me again and I’ll always be alone and and and and and OHMAHGAWD drama. Everyone does- it’s part of the instability that comes with being a teen, but most of us learn from it and grow. That said, whenever my mom knew I was having drama with people- whether self induced or otherwise- she would intervene in that she would stop me from being further involved. If that meant her banning me on the computer so I couldn’t chat, email, and MySpace them- she did. If that meant her taking away my cell phone- she did. If that meant her hanging up when they called the house- she did. Why? Because she’s an adult who could see that the drama was totally not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and she knew that teenage drama blows over in about 22 hours (something that 14 year old me couldn’t even fathom, for my world- you see- was over).
I’m not saying the parents are vastly responsible for what happened at all. I’m simply saying that perhaps some of their actions were less than stellar decisions. Certainly, that is a fact that is easier to state now, but I just can’t imagine a parent of a mentally unstable girl letting her get involved in an imaginary relationship with “some boy” online. Look, even if he WAS a real kid, he’s a kid online and how on earth could they be so ok with her getting attached like that? Further, if you see her getting too attached or upset, why log her on to the computer?
All that said, I again do not blame them. I hope that their mistakes (which are there, even if they are on the minor side- and honestly, I find it strange that everyone is saying other wise) can set an example for other parents who have kids with similar issues that their daughter did. There were a ton of factors in their daughter’s death, but I imagine parents hope they can control as much as possible. I don’t even know if that last little paragraph made sense. . . probably not.
And again, I don’t think she’s better off dead. I do think what the other parents did is atrocious and they deserve the most strict punishment they can get. I hope every child in that school can now understand what exactly are the horrible effects of bullying on already hurting kids (and even the healthy ones). I hope that somewhere, some parent was watching the Today Show just like I was, and I hope that parent will realize they need to pay a little more attention next time their teenage daughter is getting emotional in front of the computer screen (rather than just letting it run its course). I hope that Megan’s parents can overcome their grief, though I’m sure that will never happen (how could it?).
[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree that her parents make mistakes - because all parents make mistakes. I disagree that the parents are in any way responsible for her death. I lay that solely at the feet of those vile “adults” who intentionally pushed her over the edge. Her Internet time was very monitored, if we take the parents at their word and as for the relationship with a boy online, maybe they did feel it was safe because that was a relationship they could monitor as well. I also feel that since the report is that she was getting better, they were probably attempting to help her lead a more “normal” teenager life - and that includes MySpace for every kid I know.
I’m late to this thread and didn’t read the whole thing, but am sympathetic to the parents.
My DD, who is not yet a teenager, attracted the attention of the unstable mother of another child, probably as early as kindergarten or first grade. I didn’t realize the size of the problem until third grade and took firm steps to distance ourselves from the other family.
This was a problem that took 2+ years to realize what a serious problem it was and then another two or so to solve. I hope it is completely over now, but I will be forever vigilant and it has left some marks on my DD.
My take on this is the family didn’t realize how big a problem it was. Who expects and adult to target or fixate on a child?
[QUOTE=Ca3799]
My take on this is the family didn’t realize how big a problem it was. Who expects and adult to target or fixate on a child?
[/QUOTE]
I think Diosa’s point (I hope she will correct me if I’m wrong) was that Megan’s overinvestment in “Josh” was something the parents should have curtailed. I wouldn’t want my kid getting all involved with some boy over the internet, and definitely not at age 13, when she’s already emotionally unstable and has had problems dealing with other kids IRL. In fact, I’d go so far as to say, I wouldn’t want my kid playing around on Myspace at all at her age. I don’t care if it’s what the cool kids were doing at school, nor if Megan felt she needed to do it to fit in. Obviously it made her very vulnerable, something which is true even when kids are not being targeted by predatory adults. I’ve seen students get in serious, real life trouble for things they’ve said on Myspace and IM, including making death threats, carrying out grudges from the internet in person, etc.
This is not to say that the parents to blame here; the lion’s share of the blame definitely rests elsewhere. But in general I’d say kids that age need to have their internet use monitored and strictly limited, and it’s fair to say Megan’s was not appropriately monitored and limited. The graveness of the consequences was unforeseeable and statistically unlikely; however, there are often less grave consequences that still should be avoided.
Hell, I know adults who can’t conduct themselves appropriately on Myspace…