N. and S. Korea firing artillery at each other

The BBQ Pit
1

First up, let’s poison the well… WITH TRUTH!
Communists are evil and their supporters are (at worst) just as evil or (at best) a bunch of fuzzy-headed nitwits who pick and choose what history to read and believe and promote. Frankly, I tend to lump communist-apologists in with proto-brownshirts as a bunch of ignorant scum who would gladly, even cheerfully destroy the freedoms I enjoy in the name of their bullshit philosophies which have never worked anytime a country has been stupid enough and/or unfortunate enough to put them into practice. Such systems only manage to barely function by maintaining climates of fear with secret arrests, open-ended imprisonments, purges and murders…

So congratu-fucking-lations, commie bastards. You’ve given me no reason to bother distinguishing you from Nazi scum, because in practice there’s no difference. So bitch all you like about how so gosh-darn terrible South Korea is… I don’t give a fuck. The sooner North Korea is consigned to the shitheap of history, the better, and frankly if I could push a button and cause the highest-ranked 200 members of the regime to undergo Scanners-style head explosion, you can consider it pushed, dickwit. Yeah, that’s right, I would gladly kill 200 people who’ve never done any harm to me personally simply because the human race is better off without them, and I won’t waste your time and mine to make up lies about how it serves some greater philosophical goal. These people kill and have killed. They show no sign of stopping. Remove them, and I don’t have to negotiate with my conscience (let alone lie to all of you) to find some fine-print rationalization involving racial purity or dialectic materialism or whatnot.
Anyway, since the GD thread got closed for being too acrimonious (though I myself had the good sense to restrain myself), I figure in this forum we can at least be honest and I can heartily extend an invitation to go suck a syphilitic cock to anyone who apologizes for NK including anyone who apologizes for NK while claiming not to be.

2

I bowed out of the thread because it was obvious that Damuri Ajashi is the kind of person who ignores logic, reason and facts to vigorously shout down those he disagrees with. A bit harder on a message board, but anyone who frequently posts 5-7 times in a row in the same thread is obviously a raving jackass who you would not want to engage in real life conversation.

And Commissar? Of course he’s going to hedge, offuscate and avoid anything that might indicate flaws in his own ideology. There’s no value in ‘debate’ with someone hellbent on refusing to admit or understand that there might be something wrong with certain aspects of their [del]God[/del] Ideology when it comes to real world practice, even when the people allegedly practicing it are doing so in name only.

3

Link to the thread for those who wonder:

Like I said, it was like watching creationists demanding others to “teach the controversy”.

Sorry Dar Commissar; even I, that does believe in democratic socialism, is fed up with communists that try to find an excuse for criminal behavior from countries like North Korea.

Hell, even China demonstrated to all that dropping the sorry Stalinist command economy did wonders to the progress of China, it is the height of stupidity to see that the leaders of NK continue to use a system that was even discredited in the communist world.

4

Honestly, that was some of the most amusing troll-feeding that I’ve participated in for years. It’s times like this that I’m glad the TPTB rarely ban folks who troll GD, because they provide such awesome comedy.

Totally get you though, communist/totalitarian/fascist assholes like our commie friend only differ from other communist/totalitarian/fascist assholes in the specific slogans that they mumble while masturbating to the image of a boot stomping on a human face, forever.
Damuri’s pretty much just an intellectual flyweight though; he’s harmless.

5

Since we’re here. Commissar is a dishonest lying moron.

6

Alles klar, Herr Kommissar?

7

Man, I hate you. I’ve been waiting for days to use that line on Comissar, and was just hanging for the absolutest, perfectest occasion.

8

Commisar is a gimmick. He’s playing a character. It’d be no different than someone picking the username “Gandalf” and posting “YOU SHALL NOT PASS!” in every thread.

And Damuri, learn to multi-quote, you jackass. You constitute 10% of the posts in every thread you participate in.

9

I would like to post this as an OP in GD, but until I get authorization to revisit that topic I’m going to post it here, since I had the bits about the Grad range and targeting already written out and ready to post just as the damn thing got locked.
[ol]
[li]The evidence points to North Korea using a six man BM-21 MRL battery to attack Yeonpyeong Island[/li][li]Roughly 1/6 of the rockets fired scored direct hits and/or glancing hits on homes sufficient to destroy them, and virtually every building on the island suffered some form of damage.[/li][li] The BM-21 has a very large CEP and is totally unsuited for attacking point-targets.[/li][li]In point of fact, “the system cannot be used in situations that call for pinpoint precision, unless one is ready to cover the surroundings of the target with fire.”[/li][li]While I have been unable to find the specific CEP for the BM-21, an upgraded rocket that is slated to replace the BM-21 and has increased accuracy has a 1-2% CEP. As such, I will be using 2% as the CEP for the BM-21, with the caveat that it is most likely an underestimation. [/li][li]Yeonpyeong Island is roughly 15 km from the North Korean launch site which rained roughly 200 missiles down on the island. (tagged at location #4 in the first link) [/li][li]2% of 15km is 300 meters. The CEP represents the radius of a circle in which 50% of the artillery will land. Yeonpyeong Island is roughly 5 square kilometers in area (link #6). The area of the circle formed by the CEP (again, likely underestimated as per link 5) is about 3 square kilometers, or over half of the area of the Island. Roughly 50% of the approximately 200 BM-21 rockets that NK launched would have landed within that circle, with the other 50% landing outside of it. [/li][li]This means that, in pragmatic terms, it was functionally impossible for North Korea to target anything in specific on the Island or discriminate civilian from military targets. [/li][li]Likewise, from the fact that roughly 200 rockets were fired and roughly 200 rockets impacted the island (see link 1), we know that the center of the circle was somewhere close to the center of the island, as opposed to being centered on South Korea’s military location, or else a significant number of the roughly 200 rockets NK launched would have fallen into the ocean instead of on the land. [/li][li]South Korea has had the Rome Statute in effect since 2003. South Korea’s territory is where the attack occurred. Under Article 12, paragraph 2, subsection A of the Rome Statute, the ICC has jurisdiction to prosecute those responsible for actions in violation of the RS that are directed against the State on the territory of which the conduct in question occurred, even if the violating nation is not a signatory [/li][li]Under the RS, war crimes include but are not limited to:[/li]- Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
-Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives;
[li] I would also argue that by launching weapons that were indiscriminate and whose area of effect included virtually the entire population of the island, NK also run afoul of:[/li]-Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities;
-Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives;
[/ol]

As such: North Korea’s recent attack on South Korea was an indiscriminate attack on civilians and a war crime.
QED

10

FinnAgain: You forgot Commissar’s hilarious query regarding when South Korea’s diplomatic efforts were happening. I guess he doesn’t consider their communication with the PRC or even a meeting with the US Secretary of State a diplomatic event. I guess that Orwellian dictionary of Commi’s doesn’t include an entry for diplomat or diplomacy.

11

I’m guessing that by this point, the regime has racked up so many crimes that they just blend together. I’m prepared to assume Commissar is a lame-ass troll, but there’s no shortage of drooling apologists and useful idiots to rationalize their little hearts out on NK’s behalf.

12

I’d like to start out by pointing out that there is an entire spectrum of difference between fascism and communism.

I like using communistic societies in my science fiction and fantasy writing because it is the ideal form of government. but it will never make its way off the page because it is just that, a fantasy. If I sound sorrowful or apologetic have no illusions, I’m not. I like the good old Republic, even if it doesn’t always work.

As far as the Korea twins go, Huzzah. I was looking for a reason to get out of the god awful desert and somewhere with a respectable climate for gods sake. Next stop Korea, boys pack some very thick condoms in case they try that shit again because that’s un ac-fucking-ceptable conduct in or out of war and if you don’t know what I’m talking about ask your history professor, back in the east, after all it went so well last time. Fuck it, I say! We need to fight countries again COUNTRIES people, fuck this liberal ass, minimal casualties surgical bullshit. I want an enemy with a goddamn face! I’m gonna cut this rant short because it turns out my forum time is at six oclock in the morning and I’ve totally lost my train of thought but more to come!! PAX AMERICANA again baby!!!

13

Only if you limit this to post-scarcity communism, which is anarchistic and, therefore, only communistic if you voluntarily join a commune. Otherwise, you run into the problem of how you determine what kinds of organized production are allowable and what kinds are exploitation, how you deal with people who do not want to join the society, how you determine what something’s value is without any idea of how much people in the society want it (the Calculation Problem), and, finally, how you prevent the people who volunteered to keep things going from using their power to effect social change that wasn’t agreed upon by everyone else.

I think that last point deserves expansion: Ultimately, to get technical things done, someone has to have veto power. Otherwise, it’s just endless bikeshedding over the simple parts of the decision, where everyone feels qualified to have an opinion. After a certain point, some decision has to be made, even if it isn’t the absolutely optimal one. This veto power is why some leaders of Open Source software projects are called Benevolent Dictators For Life; within their respective projects, they are always correct about the issues they decide directly. (The corollary is that they shouldn’t be deciding very much, and should surround themselves with people whose technical wisdom they trust.)

Therefore, due to that veto power, the people who actually run things have a very undemocratic amount of authority. They have to be able to ignore the will of the people in order to, say, make sure the commune has functional heat before the first freeze. If they don’t, everyone dies and it doesn’t matter how democratic their communism was.

This authority is perpetuated by the fact it’s difficult to learn enough to replace someone with specialized, useful technical knowledge. Especially if you have your own job which takes a non-trivial amount of time and energy. I’ve focused, somewhat myopically, on software, but electricians and plumbers and mechanics and so on are all difficult to replace in a society where someone who already has a job would have to learn their job from the ground up.

Finally, all that also applies to the job of running a commune. Government is difficult, thankless work, and I would not want to be in one. Neither would most people, I suspect, if they ever had to do it themselves. Therefore, even without any malice, you end up with a government composed of people who want to stay in government, and little turnover.

And this doesn’t even get into all the myriad ways one of those essential and difficult-to-replace people could abuse their power in the face of a popular policy decision they disagree with. A really pissed-off electrician can show anger in ever so many ways.

The only way to check this authority is to recognize the inalienable right of everyone to leave the commune entirely without prejudice or retaliation.

14

I haven’t read the whole thread - have we ever figured out what Comisar’s story is? I’ve guessed that he’s a 16 year old little precocious kid who gets off on diving into cultures other than his own (or what he perceives to be those cultures) and then has to brag about how superior he is to everyone else for embracing them.

15

It was very nice to see you in full attack-mode against something other than holocaust deniers. It’s worth saving that thread somewhere for the next time we have to deal with Israel-bashing and they start accusing you of being a one-trick pony.

16

On paper, sure. Just like the huge irreconcilable gulf between Catholics and Protestants, I guess, though it hardly matters to the poor schmuck being burnt at the stake for witchcraft. In practice, however, both systems select for the most ruthless, with positions of power being given to the faction most successful at undermining and accusing its competitors. Couple that with the personality cults of Stalin, Mao, the Kims, Castro, Hitler, Ceauşescu, Pinochet, Mussolini, Tito… and we get the deification of the leadership and purging of enemies, real and perceived, for an overall culture of fear and deprivation for anyone unlucky enough to not be part of the power structure, though even that’s no guarantee.

Well, that just means you’re not stupid enough to believe your own fantasies. Congratulations, you’ve already got an edge over psychotics and potential cult leaders and actual communists and religious fundamentalists the world over.

17

Christ, so the whole Starship Troopers anal retentive rant was only because the same arguments could be switched over to Israel…

Talk about having a broom up one’s ass…

18

What, no mention of the evil Western capitalist pig warmongers or their puppet media yet. Is someone sleeping when there’s propaganda to be spread? :wink:

19

Well, we can be (mostly) confident that when Coca-Cola contemplates Pepsi drinkers, they’re thinking about changing their minds through advertising, not sending them off to slave labor camps for “re-education” or gas chambers for “evacuation.”

20

Nnnnooooo. No, I don’t think it was at all. In fact, I think you have your head up your ass in this matter.