Nasty dog fight

In My Humble Opinion
1

My girlfriend called me up this morning distraught. She said her dog killed another dog. She has a boxer-bulldog mix that doesn’t really like other people, and really dislikes other animals, but usually just barks and growls to keep unfriendlies away. Well, this morning, she was walking her dog on a leash, when they came across a neighbor who was walking his dog too (Lhasa Apso or something similar)-- without a leash.

The unleashed little dog comes running full kilter toward my gf and her dog, barking his fool head off. My gf tried to pull her now-snarling dog back, and the other owner fruitlessly tried to call his dog back as well.

Well, the little scrapper kept running, and when he got close enough, my gf’s dog grabbed it by the neck and began swinging it like a rag doll.

During my coversation with the distraught gf, I come to find out the little dog didn’t actually get killed at this point, but it was pretty messed up. The other owner took it to the vet immediately, and there’s been no word.

Right after the incident took place, she called the cops, but they refused to come out because it would be “her word against the neighbor’s,” and they didn’t want to be bothered with a dog incident. Animal control said the same thing.

Now, my gf’s worried that 1) Her neighbor could sue her, and 2) They could take her dog away for being “vicious.”
I’m not asking for legal advice, just all ya’ll opinions on this. My take is that: 1) she did nothing wrong (her dog was leashed); 2) her dog is not vicious, just protective of her, and her dog saw this other yapping dog as a threat; and 3) and the neighbor just learned an unfortunate lesson as to why you always leash your dog.

Has anyone had an experience like this? What are your thoughts?

2

Sorry dude, but motivation and circumstances don’t matter. It’s a vicious, poorly socialized dog and will probably be a serious problem in the future.

I fully agree that the other owner was an immense idiot and your g/f did nothing wrong, however that doesn’t absolve the dog’s culpability here. I the very least she’d better get this dog to a professional trainer immediately. Though I’d feel beter if it were put down. Better hope a rambunctious toddler doesn’t try and pet it next time.

3

Speaking ONLY for the area where I reside and practice, the owner of the dog that was off leash would be seen as at fault. In fact, I was involved with a similar case recently where the on-leash dog suffered minor (relatively) wounds and its owner sued the owner of the dead (off-leash) dog to cover his veterinary expenses.

4

Start petitioning your municipality to punish people who walk their dogs without a leash. I don’t see this ending well for your girlfriend’s dog, but now that the situation has come up and, unfortunately, another dog has been maimed, laws need to be made/updated.

5

I’d be worried about a kid doing the same thing as the dead dog. They can come up close to a dog in a hurry. She doesn’t need to take it out in public on leash anymore.

6

Or at all.

7

I think the owner of the unleashed dog was at fault.

That said, if I was in your sister’s shoes, I’d either stop taking that dog out in public or muzzle it when I did.

8

The smaller dog should have been on a leash. Period. Most dogs are not well-behaved enough to listen to their owners when the temptation of another dog is there. That being said, I also think that your girlfriend’s dog might be overly-aggressive. Protective is one thing, but mauling a little dog for getting too close is different than giving a warning growl or bark.

9

Well the warning growl and barks were there, but the little dog continued on. I have a feeling most alpha dogs would react the same with another barking dog charging at it full speed. I don’t think most dogs take into account the size of the opponent, they react the same no matter what.

Every other time there was an incident where her dog growled or got spooked, a solid tug on the leash put her dog back in line and things were fine. The difference this time is that the tugs on her leash couldn’t stop the other dog from charging. Previous to today she’s never attacked or biten anything, just growls, but she’s always heeled when told. I agree that a muzzle would be a good idea, however.
And this wasn’t a walk through the streets; it was a walk 10 feet from the front door to do her business. (There’s no enclosed yard).

Thanks for the input so far! My gf’s a wreck right now.

10

My sympathies to your girlfriend, her neighbor and to the injured dog. What an awful thing. That said, I would advise your girlfriend to contact the neighbor immediately, very contrite, and offer to help with the vet bills. Despite what others have posted here, I emphatically advise not her to tell the neighbor that he was at fault, particularly if the dog dies. I think that would just be inviting a civil suit.

Your girlfriend probably won’t like this story, but here goes: I have a friend who lives in a rural area of our county. Last fall two of her neighbor’s dogs came into my friend’s yard and attacked one of her dogs who later died. The neighbor refused to pay any vet bills or to even apologize, saying that it was also my friend’s fault since her dogs were also loose (even on their own property!) My friend contacted the county attorney who pressed criminal charges against the neighbors. They were found guilty of harboring dangerous animals and had to pay a fine and make restitution to my friend for the vet bills and $200 for the dog.

I don’t know how the laws are in your area, but the climate here is getting very strict about dangerous dogs. Your girlfriend might save herself a lot of trouble and money in the future by paying at least part of the vet bill now.

11

It seems like both the police and animal control have there heads on straight. I wouldn’t worry about criminal charges. Maybe a frivilous lawsuit?

12

I had a friend whose dog died in an entirely similar incident–her dog, a vicious but small Chihuaha mix, attacked something like a Rottweiler, and the Rottie snapped the little dog’s neck without much trouble.

(It was hard comforting my friend. Most of us thought her dog got what it deserved. And lest you think it really didn’t, at one point this friend had bruises and a couple of bites all up and down her arms. Why? Because the Chi got hold of her pantyhose and when she tried to take them back this tiny, nasty little dog attacked her.)

Anyway…the Rottie owner was fairly nice about it and even took my friend and her (now lifeless) dog to the vet, where of course her pet was pronounced thoroughly dead. She tried to get a lawsuit going against the Rottie owner. It didn’t happen. But she learned some interesting things about dog law.

But one point against the Rottie’s owner was that he had helped.

One point against my friend was that her dog was off its leash. This turned out to be the decisive point.

So the upshot here is I would urge the OP’s girlfriend to be very careful in her proceedings. It would be a nice gesture to pay the vet bills or part of them but it might be seen as an admission of guilt.

I also agree with people who’ve said she also ought to be careful about her own dog, although I really don’t see the dog as at fault here. I don’t think dogs understand the concept of reasonable force.

13

If there’s any concern about lawsuits or charges, offering to pay for the injured dog’s care may be unwise - it might be construed as an admission of guilt.

Relative to the example in post #10, I would say there’s a significant difference between the attacking dog and the defending dog in the eyes of the law. See post #3.

As far as my thoughts, I’m sorry the neighbor’s dog was injured or perhaps killed, but neighbor was asking for it. Both common sense and the law say don’t let your dog run unrestrained. This is especially true if you can’t control him, though of course lots of owners are “sure” they can control their dogs unleashed when in actuality they cannot reliably do so. Why people seem to think they’re so special that they (and they alone, usually) shouldn’t have to obey the law is beyond me. Not to mention why they seem to think that it’s absolutely physically impossible for there to ever be a first time (but…but…he never did that before!) for their dog to do something harmful or stupid - like running and barking toward a bigger stronger dog and ignoring its warning growls.

14

Actually, my friend didn’t get much response from the police or animal control either. After several weeks she made a complaint to the county attorney’s office and about three weeks later that office filed charges.

15

Well, I have no idea what jurisdiction this happened in, but I believe the usual stance here in the UK is that it is the owner’s responsibility to have their dog under control at all times, and that anything the dog does is the owners fault. End Of Story.
So in this instance, one dog was properly under control on a leash, the other was not. The uncontrolled dog started a fight it really shouldn’t have, and got shredded. Unless there are some other circumstances not disclosed (if your GF had been egging her dog on, or could reasonably have been expected to haul it off before serious injury had occured) then I would expect the neigbours legal situation to be summarised as Tough Shit, Don’t Let It Happen Again.

As to whether your GF’s pooch is a danger or not, I have no idea. I agree with Omniscient that she might want to take it to a reputable dog handler to get an opinion on whether it is over-aggressive or needs behaviour modification - in general it’s probably safe to say that most dogs and owners would benefit from obedience/control classes, and it would probably maker her feel a lot better. Don’t know if this might be seen as some sort of admission of liability though.

I grew up with a couple of pedigree German Shepherds my parents brought with them from Uganda - they were guard dogs rather than pets and I’m 90% certain they would have done exactly the same in that situation, but they never went for any people or animals that didn’t provoke them. Despite their track record in Africa (dismantled a Great Dane, mauled some burglars, killed numerous cobras/servals/goats etc.) they weren’t vicous, just protective. However, they were properly trained - if the dog is is a bit sharp and your GF doesn’t have the muscle to pull the dog off something, proper training (or a muzzle) is vital. If the dog is controllable with leash and commands, it’s probably OK but to expand on Gary Ts point, lots of people overestimate the control they have even on the leash - they think their Rottweiler or Shepherd or whatever is perfectly under control until the first time the dog gets fired up and then end up being dragged along like a kite as their pooch goes for in the kill.
Get an expert opinion and, if necessary, training or a new dog. I’m personally not a huge fan of muzzles - if the dog can’t be trusted in public without one, it shouldn’t be in public at all. A muzzled dog jumping on a small child is still going to be dangerous and traumatic.

16

So your GF was on her own property? And this other dog came onto her property to fight with her dog? In that case, I’d imagine the very worst thing that could happen (and this all depends on what the local laws are) is that she might be required to put up a fence or a kennel to confine her dog when it is outside.

Most places have leash laws and the owner of the other dog is obviously at fault there for having his dog completely unrestrained, though in some places this doesn’t matter as much in as others. For instance, where I live, even if someone has an unleashed dog and it goes for my leashed dog and my dog bites it, I can still be considered liable - here, if you can’t prevent a dog from biting then you are considered not to have adequate control of your dog. It sucks, but that’s the way it is. I carry Direct Stop or a spray bottle with water and ammonia in it with me for this very reason - it keeps dumb, loose and (usually) unsupervised dogs more than a leash length away so no mouth contact is possible.

Personally I am not surprised that an on-leash dog would bite an off-leash one that was charging toward it. A leashed dog, who can’t get away from a charging dog, is naturally going to feel more defensive because it’s less capable of avoiding a confrontation - they can’t run away because they are restrained. So I don’t consider such a dog to necessarily be more aggressive - it might just be afraid and trying to protect itself the only way it feels it can.

We have leash laws for a reason. Anyone who doesn’t follow them needs a clue-by-four upside the head.

17

Exactly. She should not offer to pay or help pay the bills if she is afraid legal action may be forthcoming. She also should not say “I’m sorry” or anything like that as it could be construed as an admission of guilt.

18

I love animals. Dogs are cool, and I, while not a dog owner (cat owner), appreciate them for their unique traits and overall worthiness.

But dang, this reminds me of an ep on Emergency Vets where this tiny little dog stuck its muzzle out of a fence to challenge a (I think, but am not sure) German Shepherd.

WTF?

The poor thing got its jaw torn clean off, as I recall.

And I guess maybe I am heartless, but I can’t think of what the heck the smaller dog was thinking of?

And the big dog was on a leash? And the ankle-biter wasn’t? And it kept coming at the larger dog? Sorry. Evolution in action. Best wishes to your gf. I don’t believe she, or her dog, was in the wrong here.

19

People do this too. If challenging others and generally acting like dicks isn’t discouraged, they lack awareness that aggressive behaviour can have consequences when they meet someone really dangerous.
Small dogs raised around big dogs are well aware that challenging them for status isn’t going to work out, and there usually are no problems. Dogs are pack animals, and need to have their social instincts tuned by playing with other dogs or by their owners. Otherwise they have the instinct to push for Alpha status, but don’t learn how to read the signals of others, when it’s appropriate to challenge and when to back off. Plus many small dogs are just bred/pampered to the point of psychosis (miniature poodles and miniature yorkies - :rolleyes: ).

20

While I agree that both dbuzman and Gary T are probably right, it makes me a little sad that even expressing sympathy can be construed as an admission of guilt.
It also makes me very grateful that I live in a rural area with a different attitude towards neighborliness.
I live on 20 acres with four dogs of varying size. My neighbors that live across the pasture collect itty bitty little mixed breed dogs and on two separate occasions, one of her dogs has come through my fence with terrible results.
The first dog died and although the second dog was clearly on my property, I still offered to pay half the vet bill and she accepted because I felt awful.
In neither case did I ever think she would attempt to press charges against me or have the dogs removed or destroyed.

Before anyone decides that my dogs are a social menace, I’d like to make it clear that they have never attacked a dog that has been brought out here by a friend.
I think that my gang thought the neighbor’s dog was some sort of rodent.
The neighbor has since introduced her dogs officially, if you will, to my dogs when we were both present and that has done the trick.