This is why we’re here, to entertain the moderators.
I got a “Not Found.” Is it because I lack faith?
Well, since the link works for me, we must assume that either (a) you lack faith or (b) you are a maroon. So let’s go with “Yes; it’s because you lack faith.” 
Well, andy, I don’t guess there’s anything I could do to stop you.
Well, okay. But how about mock and ridicule the pig? I mean, purely for my own enjoyment?
I believe several of the things it says in the Bible are true.
Apparently this page comes and goes. I wasn’t getting through to it, and now all of a sudden I am. I guess somewhere a bunch of Christians are clapping their hands and saying “I believe in the ‘Index to Biblical Contradictions’ page; I do, I do!” When their arms get tired, we all get the “404 - File Not Found” error.
From Twin’s Link
[Scarlett O’Hara]Oh yes, I am weak and helpless and a man to tell me what do, or I’m just lost![/Scarlett O’Hara] :rolleyes:
Oh, and Mr. Der Kommisar? Are you going to just completely disregard my last post or what?
So that’s a no, then. Apologies. I used to know a Buckner who went by Bucky, so every time I see your name, that’s what comes to mind. No offense meant.
No problem, andros.
So where the hell’s Der Kommissar? I wasn’t finished kicking him around.
To be HONEST and OPEN with you, I have to say that the idea that my “own soul hangs in the balance” of such shoddily written and edited literature (indeed, may I say “shitty” literature) as the BIBLE offends me quite deeply. The idea that god, if he or she exists, would choose to communicate with me through the equivalent of a 1st century $3 newstand paperback hack, and then offer me such dire consequences for admitting to myself that it’s shit, is, to me, basically spitting on god and telling him that somehow the most powerful being in the universe, if he exists, can’t write a book to save his life. And that idea is quite disturbing to me.
Don’t you think god would be a better author than Danielle Steele?
Two things, DK:
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The United States, by no valid stretch of the imgainations, was established as a “christian” nation. That’s why the Amendment’s there, so the fanatics don’t force their religion on others.
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The Bible itself doesn’t even consider abortion to be murder. It’s dishonest, i.e, BEARING FALSE WITNESS, to say that it does.
Seriously, I’m not trying to be a smart ass Buckner, but help me out…if you’re acknowledging that several things in the Bible are true…who are we mocking and ridiculing, since I guess it’s not people who read the Bible and learn from it. Is it people who are openly religious? People who think the Bible is infallible?
I’m totally lost. This is why I don’t jump into these debates. Help me to the door…I…I don’t have the strength.
jarbaby
That’s not really the case. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an accident. That doesn’t mean one should be permitted to wantonly destroy a fetus. I don’t think you can extrapolate from this case to a case of premeditated abortion.
Zev Steinhardt
Boy, talk about circular logic. The framers meant for America to be a Christian country. How do we know this? Well, do you really think they meant abortion to be legal? Obviously not, because they wanted America to be a Christian country!
Never mind that the framers lived in a time when abortion was much more widely accepted. Never mind that the Bible nowhere says that abortion is murder, and in fact clearly states the opposite. Never mind, for that matter, all the unborn children which the Israelites murdered at the command of the Semitic Rape Demon (or, for that matter, all the adults slaughtered by the SRD’s armies, or all the young women they raped.)
This reminds me of some thoughts I had recently on why people hold the opinions they do. A year or two ago, most people thought that the idea that the moon landing was a hoax was utterly stupid- only a paranoid fool could believe it. Now that FOX has run a special on it, plenty of people find it to be reasonable. Or take Holocaust Deniers- one fellow who made a documentary on Holocaust Deniers found, to his horror, that when he showed the rough cut to his class of Harvard undergraduates many of them flip-flopped from “Holocaust Deniers are evil” to “Holocaust Deniers are right” after seeing the Deniers present their idiotic arguments. People’s opinions seem to be entirely shallow, rooted in what they are told they should believe instead of in the actual evidence. All these fundie pro-lifers are utterly convinced that the Bible says that abortion is murder, but they only believe it because that’s what they were told to believe, just like a few years ago they were told to believe that you have to be an idiot to think that the moon landings were a hoax. Who knows? Maybe in a year or two someone will flip the switch, and we’ll be overrun with fundies who think that abortion carries no moral weight whatsoever, because the Bible says so. After all, we’ve got a generation growing up which is more sexually active, quite ignorant of contraception, and expected to go to college. When the fundies find so many of their daughters turning up pregnant in their teens, are they going to ship them off to live with an aunt for nine months, or are they going to flip their shallow (but vehement) opinions as soon as someone gives them a more convenient (and, in this case, more accurate) spin on the Bible?
-Ben
The passage also states that if the man accidentally hurts or kills the pregnant woman, he is to be injured or killed in like kind. The fact that the injury caused to the mother was caused by accident does not mitigate. As a result, I’d have to say that the “accident” part is immaterial.
jarbaby:
Well, I’m mocking Der Kommissar, who seemed to be arguing that the Framers of the Constitution intended for this to be a “Christian nation”, and in order to carry out that mandate we therefore need to amend the Constitution to remove the parts where the Framers of the Constitution indicated that they didn’t want this to be a “Christian nation”.
And, originally, I intended to mock and ridicule people who pester Congress into declaring a “National Day of (Christian [and, in my city at least, Exclusively Protestant]) Prayer”, and who insist on celebrating this event on the grounds of my state capitol. (And the Congressmen and other politicians who are spineless, demagogic, or bigoted enough to be pestered into it.) If the National Council of Churches had started a tradition of calling for a “National Day of Prayer” each year, and various Christian churches had all agreed to celebrate it in a spirit of Christian ecumenicism, and Christians all gathered on such-and-such Thursday in May or whenever in their homes and churches and other privately-owned propety (or even rented a publicly-owned civic center or two, after filling out the usual paperwork and paying the usual fees) to pray together, then I certainly wouldn’t have started a smart-ass Pit thread. Hey, Christians gather to pray in their churches every Sunday (not to mention Wednesday night prayer meeting and the Seventh-Day Adventists on Saturday), but I don’t run out and open up a new Christian-bashing thread every week.
From this page, we had this schedule of events at the state capitol building (i.e, at my state capitol building):
So, let’s see here: I haven’t investigated this in a whole lot of depth, but it appears, just from perusing this list, that what we had here–at the state capitol, assembled by the grace of the United States Congress and the Governor of the State of Georgia–was a Protestant; another Protestant; a bunch more Protestants; another Protestant; yet one more Protestant; okay, I thought this next one might have been the Token Jew–hey, his name’s Moses, right?–but a web search indicates that this guy is some kind of officer in the local chapter of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, so, while I suppose it’s not impossible that he is in fact a Black Jewish Lay Rabbi who also happens to be Assistant Director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, I’m betting “Protestant”; a meteorologist–I guess he might be there to do a Neo-Pagan Rain Dance Ceremony, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it, and in fact I would be willing to bet folding money that he’s a Protestant meteorlogist; a professor from an inter-denominational seminary–by “inter-denominational” we mean, of course, “inter-Protestant-denominational”; and, to round out the afternoon, a Protestant. Jesus H. Christ on a sidecar, they didn’t even bother to get a Token Priest up there. Mind you, I’m not really all that keen on “Protestant-Catholic-Jewish ecumenicism” when it’s done in conjunction with the state (since I am not Protestant or Catholic or Jewish, and yet I am an American citizen), but it just shows how narrow-minded this whole thing really was. If the Protestants want to have a big Protestant love-in, don’t they have some kind of Protestant Community Center or something? It’s not like you can throw a brick in Atlanta without hitting a church (not that I would do such a thing, of course).
This pretty much proves your knowledge of Constitutional history is as good as your knowledge of the Bible.
It also says how feeble his logic skills are. There is no way to make the USA a Christian country without violating the First Amendment.
Actually, it really is the case, Zev. The verses quoted are clearly talking about an intentional act: assault. There is absolutely no honest way for you to consider the assault on the woman to be murder or attempted murder. The Bible’s punishment for an unauthorized taking of a life is forfeiture of one’s own life. Since the Bible itself does not require exacting the forfeiture of life for the forced loss of the woman’s fetus, then the Bible does not consider that to be the taking of a life.
Der Kommissar,
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when you say America was intended to be a Christian country, did you mean Protestant or Catholic?
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given that the War of Independence was fought against the country which had then (and still has) the Protestant Christianity as its State religion, weren’t the Founding Fathers rather ‘careless’ :rolleyes: not to simply carry that religion into their Constitution?
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Leviticus 20 verse 10:
‘And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commit adultery with his neighbour’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.’
Don’t you find it hard to read that passage ‘with an open mind and an honest heart’, and not want to lobby Congress for an additional death penalty offence?
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I agree with you 100% on this.
The Bible’s punishment for an unauthorized taking of a life is forfeiture of one’s own life.
[/quote]
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Here’s where you’re wrong. The punishment for murder is death. However, there are other “unauthorized” takings of life that don’t result in the death penalty. One that I can think of (and that more closely matches the case at hand than murder) is the case of an accidental, negligent death. Such a person had to go to exile until the death of the High Priest, not be put to death.
See above.
Again, however, just because abortion isn’t classified as a “murder” doesn’t, however, make it permitted. Jewish law (and yes, that’s the position I’m speaking from) mandates that in most cases, abortion is forbidden. However, if done in violation of halachah, the death penalty does not, of course, apply.
Zev Steinhardt
Well, it looks like Der Kommissar has been raptured along with JerseyDiamond. (DK, or, as I prefer to think of him, DKSD, registered on 5-5 and last posted to this thread on 5-6.) And what is it with “Der Kommissar”? “Der” is German, and “Kommissar” is Russian. It’s bad enough these fundies think the Nazis and the Stalinists were both atheist groups- now they think they were both German too!
-Ben