Yes, fuck each and every person who is saying “Well, it was just a corpse” and “How bad could it really be?”. The only problem? No one here is saying that. They are merely saying one thing (molestation of a live child) is not equal to another (desecration of a dead child). One is worse in some ways, the other is worse in different ways. They are both terrible, but are not the same and the courts should not treat them as such.
It has that “100 times worse” feel to it because it has the additional level of perversion to it, necrophilia, in addition to the pedophilia. It’s two levels of evil vs. only one level, so it feels worse.
If y’all want to argue whether it’s worse to violate a live child or a dead one, why not open a thread in GD. What’s the point of saying “it’s not that bad” here?
Just to clarify, I know that no one is saying “it’s not that bad”. But I just think sometimes it’s better not to hit the Submit button.
I guess it’s the old Kant vs. Mill thing again.
I’m not a PhD. in philosophy, so I’m not going to write an essay and this post may not survive nitpicking, but it sounds kind of Utilitarian to me to say; “Well, at least she didn’t suffer.”
And it sounds Kantian to me to say; “Well, molestation is molestation and the crimes are equal no matter the circumstances or amount of suffering.”
Ivylass,
Are you saying it’s just as bad to molest a corpse as it is a live person? Excuse me for saying so, but I think that’s incrediably shallow. This goes really for all of you who are arguing this point.
A corpse doesn’t feel anything! It doesn’t care! It’s sickening to me to suggest that having a living child suffer through the agonies of rape/molestation is in any way comparable to the anger and pain relatives might feel, whether such an act happend to their child alive or dead. It’s just not. You as a parent might feel violated, but in no way close to the way the child would. So, really think for a minute here people. The kid did not suffer at all.
Shayna,
Well, fuck you right back. As B.Pants says, no one here has said it’s a trivial issue. No one has said the mother has no right to grieve. No one has said that what happened was ok. If you or anyone else thinks that anyone has attempted in any way to validate what happened, you ought to re-read this thread more carefully.
Yes, I’m saying it’s just as bad to molest a corpse as to molest a live child. There is something wrong with someone who does either one and they need to be held accountable.
Does that mean we should divert resources from finding missing children to patrolling graveyards? No, of course not. But molesting a child’s corpse is not a victimless crime. On top of the trauma of losing a child, now the parents have to deal with the violation of the body. That’s too much to have to deal with just because these sickos wanted to get their jollies from something “that wouldn’t be hurt.”
I think some people are letting their “eww!” factor dictate their assessments of good and evil.
I’ll dare to state the following without qualification: it is a truly evil act to rape a living child. It is merely a revolting act to rape a dead body.
Listen, Eonwe, I am NOT “suggest[ing] that having a living child suffer through the agonies of rape/molestation is in any way comparable to the anger and pain relatives might feel”. So fuck YOU right back, because I’m sick and tired of people misrepresenting what I’ve said. I also never said or implied that anyone here has said it’s a trivial issue or that the mother has no right to grieve or even that what happened was ok. So YOU read the thread more carefully, whydon’tya.
I’m disgusted by what people here have said, not what you think I think people here said. I’m utterly stunned and disgusted by the following statements (emphasis mine): “but still…it was a dead body, not a person” (yeah, we know that – how does that make it not hideously gross and vile enough to inspire our wrath in such a way as to call for extreme punishment for the perpetrators of such vileness?), “She was already dead. That doesn’t make it any the less revolting or sick. But, my real revulsion is for those who do this to live children” (as if sexually violating a child’s body on its way to burial isn’t “really” revulsive), “I’m of the opinion that after you die your body is so much worm food so I much prefer that the child’s was molested when she was dead than alive” (PREFER? They have a PREFERENCE to when someone’s body is sexually violated?!).
That you are so heartless that you think there’s no difference between a grown man sticking his penis inside the dead body of a child and coming inside her is “no different than if they had been taking organs out of corpses without permission” just utterly shakes me to my core. You make me ill.
But this thread was never intended to talk about the rape of a living child. It was to talk about the disgusting act (morally, aesthetically, legally and hygenically) of violating a dead body, and everyone had to come in and say “yeah but if she was alive it would be worse” or “if she were an aids baby in Africa it would be worse”.
Why can’t we take this as a despicable act at face value rather than decide that there are worse things and then go ahead and name all of them?
Because that is how many people comfort themselves and others when bad things happen. When something horrible happens, people feel some small relief when they realize that worse bullets were dodged.
My father died suddenly a few weeks ago, and we had some small comfort when we realized that things could have been worse, such as him suffering with a long illness. Or the blood clot that gave him the fatal heart attack could have given him a stroke, and dehabilitated him for the rest of his life. He would have preferred a quick death.
Pointing how things could be worse is simply a coping method.
Well, slap a big ol’ “DIRTBAG CREATURE” ID tag on my shirt, then. I’d prefer to not let myself get overwhelmed by the sickness and disgusting examples of the world… if I did, I’d have put a gun in my mouth a long time ago (and then my corpse would probably be raped, too).
You have your way of coping. Let me have mine.
Just a guess, but perhaps it’s because necrophiliacs don’t see their victims as “just a body.” They see them as people, somewhat in the same way that children see their dolls as living beings with personalities (or -pardon me for saying so- the same way the body of a loved one is still much of the person you knew), and they feel or imagine a kind of relationship with the person (the body). What makes it so very twisted, IMO, is that it to them it is a helpless being- and certainly the power trip is part of the thrill. IOW, it’s not so much because the victim is dead, it’s because the victim is completely under their control.
IANApsychologist, but years ago I read extensively on serial killers/abnormal psych stuff. The name escapes me now, but if anyone is interested- there was a guy in England who killed men then kept them around for a while for companionship and sex, and he revealed quite a bit about what was going on in his head during those days. He struck me as a strange and sad old man because he was quite aware of the wrongness of it even as he chose it. (He got caught when he moved from his ground story flat to a second floor apartment, BTW.)
It’s a preference in the way that someone giving you the option of cutting off your head or your arm is a preference.
I, like everyone else here wish that this hadn’t happened at all. But it did. So is it really that wrong to derive at least a small amount of relief that she wasn’t alive and didn’t have to suffer through it?
Actually, Shayna, I think you’re seeing controversy where there isn’t any. All any of us dirtbag creatures have said* is thank god she wasn’t alive and didn’t have to suffer through it. No one has said it wasn’t wrong, sick, twisted or perverted.
*somewhat crudely, and for that I apologise.
i really wish the news wouldn’t report this stuff
the internet shocks me daily
as one who lost a beautiful little girl I must weigh in.
so what if the body is dead?
who cares how old the body is?
THIS IS SICK!
If I knew such a thing happened the law would never need to worry and I would be happy to die for killing the sick fucks!
Where is the line?
and I am not a violent person, I just have very strong feelings about victims, dead or alive.
Dichotomy? I abhore violece yet I would commit murder.
Where is the line? Rape is rape. When do they stop waiting for a dead one and start making their own?
I don’t believe in the death penalty but I think I could kill in a bad situation.
I would disable or kill a bad person to help the victim they are trying to hurt. I would crush bones.
I would kill the person hurting my dead baby. I’m not joking about this at all. This is bad. I know, killing is bad too and I would be killing. I would still do it.
There are other children out there who may be next? Hmmm?
Yep, I’d lose my mind.
I feel so bad for the parents.
Fuck.
Ivylass,
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here, at least regarding your first sentence.
Shayna,
Well, this seems to be the crux of our disagreement. And here’s the thing. Imagine, if you will, a child dying. Now imagine that that child’s body is taken and brutally disfigured, without anyone knowing. Now imagine that child’s body is raped without anyone knowing. Now imagine that child’s body is relieved of its kidneys without anyone knowing. Know who suffers? Nobody. I’m not saying it’s right, or ok, but no one suffers.
And that’s why it’s no different. Because no person had to suffer rape, dismemberment, or organ removal. As much as a parent might be upset to different degrees because of what might happen (and that parent would have every right to), that degree of emotion is completely random. A crime is not worse because someone is more upset about it. Robbery is robbery, whether it’s something a person didn’t care about, or whether it has immense sentimental value. When I say, “no different,” I’m not talking about the parents’ emotional response, I’m talking about proper punishment.
And one other thing:
If you think I or anyone else would have said that, then you’re sadly mistaken, and are looking for offense and opposition where there is none. Although I can only speak for myself, I’m sure most other people would agree when I say that no one would say such a thing. What I would say to anyone who was calling for excessive punishment (going much beyond whatever the punishment is for descicrating a corpse) is that that would not be justified.