New low in board insensitivity, or: "devil's advocate" carte blanche to be a dick?

The BBQ Pit
1

In this IMHO thread, Heckity tells us that her son’s girlfriend has been raped, and she asks for input on counseling her son not to take the law into his own hands. (He’s 20, strong, an MMA fighter, in his mom’s opinion he’s potentially “dangerous,” and wants to kick the rapist’s ass.)

If you’ve ever had a rape in your family (I’ve had more than one), then you know how traumatic the situation can be for all involved.

But msmith537, FoieGrasIsEvil, bengangmo, and Mr Happy decide that this thread, at this time, is the best forum to point out that it’s just possible that a rape victim–scratch that; this isn’t in the abstract, it’s about real people in a real situation–that it’s possible that Heckity’s son’s girlfriend is a lying whore.

They claim the moral highground of “devil’s advocate,” but the festival of brutal insensitivity–sorry, the helpful input designed to make sure everyone thinks of the rapist’s feelings too–starts with this post, from the ignore-list regular msmith537:

–and continues, still being constructive here–

–and ends up here:

My posted response to this got me a Mod warning. My unposted response would’ve gotten me banned.

In response to my WtF, the rest of the guys chime in, defending msmith and the rapist, refusing to understand that while their points are worth discussing–are in fact currently being discussed in other threads, so they wouldn’t even have to start their own–worth discussing in the abstract, but not in this thread, at this time.

Pretty fucking disgusting. (What’s the limit on the ignore list feature?)

2

That all seemed fine to me until you jumped all over the thread. I see nothing wrong with what msmith said.

You might have a point if this was the girl’s mother, but it’s the boyfriend’s mother, no reason to get all sensitive around her.

3

So…you’re asking…no, no, DEMANDING that once an accusation of this kind has been made, that every single person in the world must take it as the 100% gospel truth and refrain from ANY questions?

No matter that many accusations of rape are proven unfounded - anywhere from completely baseless, to ‘intended to harm the accused’ or ‘a coverup for embarassing behavior’?

I hadn’t read that thread until now, but went back and looked at the posts from the one linked above to your mod warning. Nothing to see there. Some valid potential points were raised and you didn’t like it.

And gosh, the son is a big tough MMA fighter. Oh my. We should all quake in fear.

4

Some people just don’t care about women who are raped. It’s a sad fact a lot of women have learned.

5

Yeah, that’s the attempted nuclear weapon against people who raise questions, isn’t it.

Accuse them of being horrible people who just don’t care.

6

And a lot of people don’t care about people who have been murdered, sodomized, or robbed. What’s your fucking point?

The whole thread struck me as bullshit.

7

I thought it was pretty fucked up. If the girl had been robbed, nobody would be saying “Hey, maybe she handed the guy money for charity, and then felt bad about it in the morning.” One of the more basic bits of human courtesy is that if someone claims to be the victim of a horrific crime. and we have no reason to believe otherwise, we give them the benefit of the doubt in casual conversation.

8

Not really the first time on the board. You’re poor, in debt and yet have internet - you are wasting your money. You’re fat? You are 100% at fault for it (though I agree if I am fat, I am 100% responsible for doing whatever it is possible for my own health).

There are two side to a coin, and the truth is important, but do we really have to turn every IMHO or MPSIMS thread into an inqusition? (I do understand a few fakes managed to pull wool over everybody’s eyes before…but hey, this is the Internet; except for pet threads. I demand photos that to believe the OP really have the forementioned pets :stuck_out_tongue: .) Asking a few questions is fine, but on the Internet it’s either you give some belief of the doubt, or don’t trust anything at all.

That said, the less fuss kicked over this sort of incidents, the better. I mean, even as negative as some of those points are, they are valid. I just think the thread’s not the place to voice them. I think it’s just poor ettiquete, that’s all.

9

Heckity’s last post to the thread in question offers some interesting perspective on the whole affair.

Unsurprisingly, lissener reacted like a hysterical drama queen. Again.

Regards,
Shodan

10

I think the point - which I agree with - is that this thread was about how a mother should deal with a son that is (understandibly) upset because his girlfriend was raped, and wants to deal with it himself.

Whether this girl was really raped, or whether he knows martial arts or not, are really besides the point and can be discussed in any of the many threads that deal with these issues in the abstract. This was just about: waht do i tell my - angy_as_hell - son who might go and do something he will regret later.
Also find it quite tasteless when the first response to someone saying their (pretty much) daughter in law is raped, is questions about wther she didn’t just make it up.

11

You were warned for stating that msmith was on your ignore list. That’s all you were warned for.

ETA: football, it was a question, not an accusation. I can understand if msmith had said “Come on, you KNOW it happened like this and not like that,” but his question was part of a larger cautionary post.

12

Yes, if you go to the thread and read my posts, the whole point we were trying to make was to tell the son to be sure of his facts before he goes of half cocked and beats someone senseless. That there may be more to the situation than is known.

To his credit he did just that, and every thing turned out as peachy keen as could be expected.

I most certainly wasn’t calling the girl a liar. (in fact I made it a point to use mistaken accusation rather than false accusation)

And I really can’t believe that I fell compelled to defend myself - the sort of hysteria expressed over this does a disservice to women, men and rape victims.

13

I feel a need to point out that if you go to the end of that thread, based on the OPs own words, I was, in fact, right.

14

Kee-rist! msmith’s comments were on point, ultimately as evidenced in one of Heckity’s posts, and in the ONLY location likely to do any good. If I was going to quibble over it, it should have been better phrased as suggestions to make to or questions to think about, for the son as he ponders what to do.

15

I thought their responses were pretty disgusting, too.

There is a time and a place (and a method), and that was certainly not it.

16

It’s kind of creepy that you are doing this…twice. Once, okay. Twice?

ETA: Oh you’ve edited your post.

17

They were just telling it like it is. Bitches are hos. Let’s not lose sight of that.

18

Dontcha hate when that happens? :slight_smile:

19

Dude, you were ‘right’ in that she wasn’t exactly held down and penetrated, but the guy did try to kiss her when she was falling-down-drunk, intermixed with hazy memory periods, and she remembers shoving him off her and yelling at him. Oh, and him asking her if she was OK? The guy who sexually assaulted me did something quite similar. The comparison in the original thread to an abuser in a relationship was pretty apt. So she wasn’t raped, but the dude who ‘helped’ her in isn’t looking like a peach either. Yeah, it wasn’t a premeditated drugging and rape, but attempting to take advantage of a girl who gets hit hard by drinking isn’t total exoneration, and I don’t blame her for her feelings.

I even thought you had some points in your original post, if (in your typical fashion) very bluntly phrased, but geez, man.

20

Apparently you can catch teh you know what. And I think I have an inkling as to how its transmitted.