People (men and women) make false accusations. Regularly. On even the most explosive of issues. Sometimes even moreso because they know such accusations will be especially damaging to the one being accused and they know that kneejerk supporters will crawl out from under every rock to shout down every possible question or reservation.
People Lie. People make false accusations. Questioning explosive accusations is not in any way, shape or form an assault on the accuser, nor is it morally wrong. The moral wrong is to blindly assume that every accuser is telling the absolute gospel truth at all times and to seek vengeance based on that false assumption. That’s how people get lynched, stoned, burned by mobs or branded as witches. It’s not the Rule of Law, it’s the rule of the Mob.
I’m sure the girl is probably mostly upset, embarassed and scared of what possibly COULD have happened under different circumstances than what actually did happen. Maybe he was a bit of a douchebag or maybe he just misread the situation. I’m not in a position to say. But I imagine it can be very scary for a young girl to wake up after drinking way too much and have no idea what happened with some guy.
I’m as happy as the next person that the situation wasn’t as bad as it seemed in the OP of the thread we are discussing here and msmith: kudos for knowing this before anyone else here did.
I don’t have a stake in this and Heckity didn’t seem to mind, so I guess all is well. But I personally still found the comments out of place (in that particular thread).
Please, draw a distinction between false, as in “I’m lying to cover something up or out of malice” and mistaken, as in “I don’t remember consenting, I wouldn’t normally consent, but I doh’t know what happened”
Perhaps I am just nitpicking, perhaps I’m naieve or perhaps I’m just stupid. But I think its an important distinction. For the lady concerned, to say she made a false accusation is not very palatable, she is honest, her friends see her as honest and she seems to basically be a good person (as opposed to the Duke case where I have no doubt that false is the right word to use). To suggest to someone that a mistake was made tends to avoid the blame game, and is more tied to getting at what really happened. And in this particular case, it seems that there were many mistakes made (or if you prefer a lot of stupid), from the girl drinking too much, to the guy making unwelcome advances - but given the stupid displayed and the potential for total trainwreck things turned out relatively well
Really? Where should they be? In another thread where Heckity wouln’t see them? Those were all valid points that needed consideration before Heckity’s son went off on a revenge crusade.
What has been argued is that we need to determine what happened before action gets taken, sure form a support circle if you like - but don’t shut down the asking of relevant questions. This is where the thread originated.
Asking the question in no way detracts from the sympathy we feel for the “victim” (yeah, inverted commas cus it turns out she wasn’t actually a victim of what she originally thought)
Too often when it comes to sexual assault you are screamed down for asking the question.
And also, if the girl had actually been raped, and the scumbag rapist had drugged her to do it, then I for one would like to have seen the discussion turn to “How can son get retribution without being caught”
Funny, I still wouldn’t. And I don’t think that just because she wasn’t raped, it proves she’s just fine with the whole situation, as you guys seem to imply.
I do think there’s a time and place for questions. When it’s reported to the police, for example, the police need to ask questions (not assume the victim is lying, but ask questions). When a person knows both parties and needs to know how to act around them both. When someone feels they are being taken advantage of because of someone’s victimhood.
That thread was, in my opnion, not the place for it.
Well considering that neither of the primary protagonists were actually in the thread, it seems a pretty good time to put forward ideas of what may have happened based on personal experience, or other scenarios to consider…
Unhelpful? It turned out to be true and accurate - how could that be considered unhelpful?
It would have been more helpful to support the girlfriend while she made a false police report?
It turned out that bf did almost exactly what was suggested - he considered other possibilities and found out more, and the situation was more or less resolved.
If we have formed a support circle and taken the poor girl to the police - what would the situation be now?
Has there ever been a Dope thread about male-on-female rape where it wasn’t pointed out that women lie about it (sorry, ‘cry rape’) ‘all the time’? I’ll be shocked if there has. Doubly shocked if there wasn’t at least a post about ridiculous statutory rape laws ruining lives even if age didn’t enter the equation of the OP at all.
False rape claims are worth discussing, especially when real-life examples come up and when real theories about motives are presented and debated. But it is pathetic how often the subject arises as a knee-jerk response, both on the board and in real life.
This is one of the most asinine examples of a false dichotomy I’ve ever seen around here. Are you honestly suggesting that those were the only possible options? Hijack the thread into a debate about whether Heckity’s son’s girlfriend is a lying whore, or literally lynch the guy without any further discussion?
Listen, numbnuts, there was a perfectly reasonable discussion taking place already before it became a misogynist wank fest. The focus of the discussion should’ve been making sure that Heckity’s son did not assault the guy. Questions of whether the girl was a liar, or the guy was a rapist, or whatever, were secondary.
First, you talk the guy down. Then you deal with the rest of it–or rather, you allow the Heckity clan to deal with it.
The consensus of the knuckle draggers in this wacked out situation is that NOTHING should be done until AFTER the official investigation, the charges filed, the arrest made, the trial, the appeal, and the sentencing.
When your daughter or sister is raped, you put off dealing with the situation in front of you until after you’re, and I quote “100% sure”–not 99% sure; not reasonably confident: “100% sure”–that the accused rapist has had his day in court.
Serious proposal for a thought experiment, for the cavemen: OK, your sister tells you she was raped. What do you say to her? Do you deal with the immediate emotional situation, taking her at face value for the time being, and leaving other considerations to be worked out in their time? Or would you really, honestly, prioritize a discussion about how sometimes women falsely accuse men of rape?
Do you really think that the most productive possible approach Heckity could’ve taken in the situation was to have, instead of pointing out to her son the consequences of his assaulting the dude, and talking him down taking that approach, it would be better to suggest that he should think twice about kicking the dudes ass* because his girlfriend might be a lying ho?*
Are you actually suggesting that this would’ve been the best possible approach, and the most appropriate response to Heckity in her IMHO thread? Seriously?
Firstly it wasn’t a knee jerk response or the first reply that she was “crying rape”
Secondly the response that caused the ire didn’t say she was “crying rape”, just that there were other options to consider
And thirdly, in a case where a lady was upset about a rape that never happened, you really wanna castigate people for bringing up the idea of ladies “crying rape”?