New WoW General Discussion Thread 6/8/10

I don’t play a hunter and you gotta go with what works for you but I would think that once you MD you should go all out to transfer as much threat as possible. Then when that temporary threat decays you should have blown your cooldowns and are pulling less threat. Once Vengance stacks up a decent tank should be able to hold you off even if you outgear them. After all they have a 3x threat modifier plus you are out of melee range so the mobs won’t turn on you until you are doing 110% of the tank’s threat.

From that it sounds like you aren’t having difficulty in a regular raid but with different tanks, presumably mostly in randoms. If so I wouldn’t rule out outgearing and bad tanking. A lot of random people just aren’t that good so if you are cutting edge DPS you’ll have to adjust. And I see a lot of tanks still in the WotLK mindset and gimping their avoidance and threat by stacking Stam.

Oh, side note: I think I said that threat transferred by MD/Tricks bounces back. Now that I think about it, I don’t think it does–but it does disappear once the buff fades. (I don’t know about Skada, but Omen shows counters for how long temporary threat is active, and it also shows shaded bars to indicate temporary vs. permanent threat.)

1.) Key word is “decent.” This does not appear to be the kind of problem you get with a decent tank, since he already says that he’s not using most abilities after MD wears off in the beginning.

2.) I’m fairly sure that the threat modifier in tanking stances is about 200% of damage dealt, up from 100% as the baseline. Other abilities also generate extra threat on top of damage.

3.) You need 110% to pull in melee; ranged is 130%.

Stacking Stam is still what any tank should be doing for progression content, mostly. Other avoidance stats can also be important, depending on what they’re doing, but no progression tank should ever be gearing for threat stats, ever.

Now, someone who is *only *doing five-mans, which they at this point probably outgear, can put together a threat set. But if they’re only doing dungeons, that leaves them with less access to extra gear, the means to enchant it, etc.

Sorry to hear about the guild drama. Having known the constant travails of trying to find a solid guild to raid with, I know how frustrating that can be. Not sure how committed you are to raiding, but depending on what server you’re on, it might be worthwhile to explore what options you would have if you transferred to another server. Obviously, do your research before you commit, and I would definitely ask them for an interview and ask questions about their longevity and leadership. Good luck on finding the right guild for you.

Misdirection doesn’t bounce the threat back, but the threat disappears after it’s over.

I would normally agree with you, but our bear tank currently is all about stacking Agility, which is both a threat and avoidance stat. He was upset that people were saying bears and DKs were weaker tanks on Heroic Alysrazor (and regular Alysrazor as well) due to how well block works for that fight. Apparently, most bears are stacking Agility now instead of Stam, and are taking significantly less damage than other tanks due to the obscene amounts of dodge. Basically, it seems that Deathwing’s raid will have another sort of Sunwell Radiance to deal with.

Cheers on the kills and progress everyone. My guild is recovering from similar situations as some of you describe (my toons are on Mal’Ganis to answer the question someone else put forth) with summer vacations and people quitting the game really hurting our attendance. But, we’ve been able to recover from a fairly slow start and are now 4/7 Heroic Firelands. Not sure whether we’re working on Majordomo Staghelm or Baleroc next, but both fights look to be fun. Though, there is a frustrating trend of dropping healers for both of these fights (most early kills were 4 healed), so not sure what’s going to happen there. I’m either going to be playing my Disc priest for Baleroc (so overpowered) and/or going Boomkin for Majordomo/Ragnaros. Meh.

I believe we have a nice advantage in armor right now too, which means that all is right in the World :slight_smile:

Speaking from personal experience, I would in general advise against this *unless *you know at least one person in the guild who can vouch for it. My main is on her seventh server and has been in at least nine or ten different guilds, all in the pursuit of a good raiding home, and the ones where I didn’t know anyone going in always ended badly. It’s very easy for people to make claims about what their culture is like, where everything will seem fine during interviews and chats and for maybe the first week or two, after which point it becomes increasingly obvious that they’re a terrible match.

Yup, I misspoke the first time. Once I actually started thinking about what the actual threat meters look like, I remembered.

1.) Bears are always a special case, being the only Leather tanks and missing entire kinds of avoidance that other tanks have.

2.) Threat is simply a *bonus *for bears who stack Agi. They’re doing it for the avoidance, not for the threat. Especially with Vengeance in its current state, there should be no fight where a team is wiping because the tank isn’t putting out enough threat (i.e., hitting enrage timers because DPS have to hold back for too long); there will be many fights where wipes happen because the tank dies.

3.) Cases like this are why I always qualify my statements. :smiley: Avoidance stats (and armor) work great for fights with lots of physical damage, and bears have always excelled in those areas. Pure EH stacking is also not as strict a rule as it was in Wrath; there are times where using a Stam/avoidance hybrid gem can be worth it for a good socket bonus, which almost never happened in the previous expansion. However, which stats are good, and to what thresholds, varies a lot between the tanking classes. It will also vary based on encounter, which is why it can also be helpful to have different sets of gear designed with different balances of stats.

What a fucking shock.

Somehow, the idea of Strad as a chicken makes my head hurt.

I’m planning on taking the plunge into PVP on my resto shaman next week, after finishing my FL dailies (thank og, tomorrow is the last day on both the toons I’ve been running recently). I’ve crafted the complete Bloodthirsty caster mail set, Inscription off-hand, and PVP relic, purchased a ring off the AH, and converted my JP into enough honor to buy a necklace. However, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to use to enchant the pieces (shoulders/head, I just need to earn more honor for) and what should be my protocol for gemming. Straight int gems? Int + resil gems?

Any advice from other PVPers would be appreciated. I know I’m gonna suck skillwise going in, and I’m not afraid of losing, but I’d like to at least look like I’m trying before bringing down random BG teams with my newbness. :smiley:

Not sure it is possible to hurt random BG teams by playing any kind of healer. Especially on Ally side. I wouldn’t worry about it anyway. BGs are open to anyone that wants to queue for them. People that are uber competitive about it need to go to rated BGs or arena. Just get in there, sling some heal, and have fun.

According to Wowpedia the threat modifier is 300%. Not exactly an authority I know but it seems right to me. I pull around 10K DPS and have no trouble holding off people doing 25K. Wowpedia also says you need 110% or 130% to pull aggro.

I don’t agree with Stam stacking unless “progression” refers to raids where people are undergeared. Stam comes on almost every piece of gear we have so it’s automatic. If you have the gear for the content then you have the Stam for it. If you find yourself getting 2 shotted then yeah, you need more Stam. If you aren’t getting 2 shotted then you can live for six seconds. If you don’t get heals over that period of time you have a healing problem not a tank problem. Having more Stam than you need doesn’t provide that much benefit IMO. Our healers are steady but not so pro that they never go OOM. So their mana matters. Having extra avoidance provides more of a cushion to overcome mistakes. Mistakes by anyone (DPS standing in fire or whatever). Having an extra 10K health can’t do that.

I see tanks gearing for threat. On our server still being Hit and Expertise capped isn’t unusual even though taunts and interrupts can no longer miss. Particularly DKs who don’t want to wait a GCD or 2 to get in that Death Strike. I have a bear and our itemization is so jacked that avoidance is little different than threat so I tend to associate them. We get tons of both from stacking Agility. Sure we can get more threat from Expertise (which oddly gives us avoidance as well) but missing an attack just isn’t a huge deal for us. (Though it can suck at the beginning of a fight without Tricks/MD.) Admittedly we are a backwater server (Grizzly Hills) so YMMV.

From How To Shaman at Arena Junkies you should use the following in stat weights:

4% Spell hit/195+ Spellpen > Resilience > Intelligence > Crit/Haste (Till 10 % min)> Mastery

Hit cap and Spell First first then a mixture of res and int gems I would say, aim for over 3000 resilience at least.

JayRx1981, I just started PvPing as a Resto Druid so I’m hardly an expert but in my experience Resil is the most important stat. I find I spend a lot of time “tanking” as good PvPers know to take down the healers first. The people around you for the most part expect you to keep yourself alive through this while they kill the baddies (starting with their healers). Maybe that will change as diminished returns start to take more of a bite out of the stat. I’m sitting at just over 2.5K Resil at the moment.

I try to run with guildies but when I can’t I would just pick out a likely candidate from my team and follow them around and heal them. I like hunters for this. They engage enemies at range and you can stand behind them and it takes the baddies that much longer to start eating your face off. Just be ready to switch your target if they turn out to not be good. Mostly that means going off by themselves. You want to stay grouped up so there are people to kill your attackers before they kill you.

Also, get ready to CC. A well timed Hex can save you a lot of incoming damage.

There’s no diminishing returns on resilience – it’s pretty much all linear. The decision comes down to, do you want to jump from 36.5% to 37% DR with your new gem, or do your heals need to be a little bigger?

Advice to Jay: I’ve been doing pretty much nonstop PvP on my disc priest over the past 2 weeks, and my biggest piece of advice is this: stay mobile. As already mentioned, you’re going to be the #1 target for those who know what they’re doing, and you’re going to have to pray your teammates know what they’re doing and peel off you. I find in random BGs, the opposing team focuses on me maybe 50% of the time, and oohhh maybe 25% of that attention gets peeled off by a competent teammate. Use your cooldowns whenever they’re up (by the time you’ve died, rezzed, and rejoined the fight, they’re ready again… mostly). Always look for LOS – areas where you can hide from enemy ranged while still healing your team, places to run when that huner/mage finally notices you.

Playing a healer often makes a huge difference, enough to influence the entire battle. My healing toons have around a 60% win rate on average, while my non-healing toons have closer to 50%.

Obviously, skip the +hit if you’re healing.

I’ve been doing a lot of PvP on Kene lately, so if you ever want to queue together let me know. I usually just chain-run random BGs and then hop into TB if it’s up. Lurker and I have done a couple together too. I’ll be doing that tonight after my dailies; but I’ll be out of town the next few days and may not be around much until later next week.

Wooo! We had a good raid night last night. A 1-shot on Lord Roflstomp and our first kill of Beth’tilac. It’s amazing what a little organization can do. The last four weeks, we only saw phase 2 on Beth once (and that was like 2 weeks ago, a total fluke, and we wiped at 60%). Every other attempt, we usually wiped sometime between the first and second devastates. A little strat tweaking, and last night we were pushing into phase 2 with ease right away. Four attempts later and we had our kill!

##%@ Dammit, nothing but bad luck on my last two heroic instances.

The first one was a geared tank that didn’t know how to beat the third boss in BRC (the Drakonid you drag through fire). The whole group was coaching him, and he still wiped us a few times.

The second, was a stonecore group. The tank (who never said a word) refused to let us set up some CC for whichever dwarf dudes turn into the elementals. Wipe on the second damn pack (Broke my sheep 3x).

That’s good to know. I’m just obsessive-compulsive about preparing for my part in any multi-person encounter before I step foot in it (which is why I’ve only tanked for guildies–I’m not confident enough in my knowledge as a tank to pug), and that’s translating over to prepping for pvp. It probably doesn’t help that about all I have time for during my week on at work is dailies and online reading of various wow sites/forums.

I can see the benefit of 4% spell hit (for hex, elemental totems, and purge, if nothing else), but why spell pen as a healer?

So far, the gear I’ve acquired adds up to about 2.2k resilience. I’ll try to grind a few dungeons on monday to get a few more JP->Honor pieces to hit 2.5k, unless y’all think 2.2 will be a good enough start.

And that’s one of the things I’m kindof looking forward to. A new paradigm. More use of spells that I rarely, if ever, get to touch in 5-mans. And if I have 4% hit, my hexes won’t randomly break…they’ll break cause they were dispelled by the other side’s healers. :wink:

I’m looking forward to healing in such a chaotic environment, even though i’ll probably suck at it. I do have a question. Is there a good guide/site explaining the different battlegrounds before I go in?

I won’t be able to actually do much until Monday because of work, but I’d love to queue with you guys if you’ll have me. :slight_smile:

Also, I somehow missed 3 marks on a previous day on Rahuul. One more day of doing at least the starter FL dailies. Ugh.

On the other hand, Rahmon finally finished his up. Yay. At least that’s one less character doing them over and over again. He’ll be doing TB dailies instead.

The same reasons you want hit applies to spell pen; it’s to prevent your offensive spells from being resisted.

You’ll see people in BGs with zero resilience, so 2.2K is fine to start in my book. Everybody has to start somewhere. Folks will probably be so glad to see an actual healer that you could play naked. Well, OK…maybe that’s pushing it…but the bar is virtually non-existent for random BGs.

Haven’t looked at this site in depth, but seems to cover the basics

Warsong Gulch is 10v10 capture the flag

Arathi Basin is 15v15, capture/defend flags to earn resources, 1600 to win

Eye of the Storm is a combination of both…there is a central flag, and four towers to capture for points 1600 to win

Alterac Valley is one of my favorites–huge map, 40v40 or so, kill the king (raid boss) to win, or run opponent out of reserves by capturing/destroying towers, capture graveyards, killing other team

Isle of Conquest is another favorite–kill the king (raid boss) with vehicles to drive, flags to cap/defend. If you don’t know what to do with Glaives, do not take one.

Strand of the Ancients–Storm a fortress/defend fortress timed race-like scenario. Attackers land on the beach, must fight through multiple gates to capture a relic, then the round ends, teams switch roles–fastest time to capture relic wins. Vehicles important to smash gates.

Battle for Gilneas–like Arathi Basin, but smaller, I think. Only 3 flags to capture/defend.

Twin Peaks–like Warsong Gulch, capture the flag on a different map.

Grrr, no go on Staghelm last night. 2 hrs of wipes. Got him to 5% once. I’m thinking that I may not be pulling my dps weight. I was at the bottom of the list. I used to be #3 after our Hunter and Priest (or 4 after a shaman). I did have to break up my 4pcT11 set with 2 higher rated pieces. 2pcT12 will take more than a few weeks though. I hit the target dummies and replaced the T11 gear, and my dps didn’t go higher. I also tested my 2H staff from FL vs my 1H from FL and my OH (binding book) 2H is better in every stat except haste(not great), so no go there. That is until I open the next set of dailies and get the OH from there. Even still, it’s pretty close.
I know there’s a lot of movement on Staghelm, so maybe it’s just a mage-unfriendly fight. worldoflogs seems to agree.
No matter how many wipes there are, a nice BG win and 25 Conquest points makes me feel a bit better. :smiley:

Oh and JayRx1981, get in there with whatever you’ve got. Have fun, make an opponent mad, and have fun! (yes double the fun!)

Don’t forget windshear – keep the most dangerous enemy caster targeted (usually a healer) and keep his nasty stuff interrupted. You definitely don’t want an enemy priest sitting back and mindcontrolling/manaburning freely. Dispelling buffs and hots (especially lifebloom) is also great if your teammates don’t need that much healing. Speaking of dispels, definitely dispel your teammates at every opportunity.

2.2k is fine to start. Personally, I used my honor to fill every slot with a +res item before going after my s10 set bonuses, but I don’t know whether the resto sham set is worth forgoing all the resilience for or not.

Your best bet is to just go in and follow people around and learn that way. As a healer you won’t have to worry about the mechanics as much as everyone else, and if you ever find yourself all by yourself wondering what to do, then you did something wrong (or your teammates did). Yesterday I was in WSG on my disc priest and found myself alone on the enemy roof with their flag carrier plus two others (3 holy pallies, hah). We stood there and /danced with each other for a while before my team got their heads out of their butts and sent people to get our flag back.

I just checked, and Kene’s not quite at 2.4k resil yet, so 2.2 is certainly fine. I was around 1k when I jumped in.

Should I stick with Mana Burn more? I’ve used it a little, but it doesn’t seem to be very effective. I use MC but usually only when someone is standing close to a ledge or cliff. :smiley: