NFL draft

[Omniscient]

Quick retort to Hamlet’s points.

@Hamlet

Onto the Bears:

The thing that stuck out to me about their draft was their lack of drafting on the offensive side of the ball. They have a solid to outstanding defense, and the 29th ranked offensive, and they draft 5 defensive players, and wait to the sixth round to get a fullback and a guard. Seriously, what the fuck? As a Packer fan, I was happy to see it, but it just made no sense to me, especially given the talent available that they passed on. Are they that happy with Fred Miller and Terrance Metcalf? Where the heck is an honest to god playmaker on the team? Are they that confident that Mark Bradley is the solution, and that Desmond Clar, willl suddenly blossom? And don’t get me started on Grosston or Ortman or whoever they got playing QB (actually I’m thinking Griese will be the starter, because Grossman will catch a severe cold and be unable to play all season). Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson are a fine pair of runningbacks, but they got crap everywhere else? How do you not try and improve that glaring weakness through the draft?

I agree and I don’t agree. Yes, the Bears needed to address some spots on Offense in the draft as you no doubt noticed from my ranting and raving. Had Chad Jackson and Leonard Pope not slid right into our laps at great value spots I wouldn’t have necessarily been clamoring to get offensive guys. I’m mostly a best-player-available kind of guy. We have one of the best OLs in the league and I’m comfortable with the Grossman-Greise tandem at QB based on what I’ve seen of Grossman. TE is clearly a need and the Bears admitted to targeting Wisconsin tight end Owen Daniels on the second day, but it wasn’t to be. I have no idea what they had against Pope. Even if the only thing that changed in our draft was taking Pope instead of Hester I’d have been thrilled.

Don’t forget, the Bears used 4 of out first 6 picks on Offense last year and it didn’t exactly amount to much improvement. The reason the Bears have traditionally had a great defense is because we never stand pat and ignore it after a successful run. I’m not pissed we didn’t address the offense this weekend, I’m pissed we missed great values…on players who just happened to be offensive guys. Had the Bears reached for iffy WRs like Jennings or Rodgers after passing on Jackson I’d be homicidal.

Now, the players they did get:

Daniel Manning
Agreed, except for the part of him being excellent. Actually, he very well maybe, because he reminds me a bit of Nick Collins, a small school guy who has amazing skills, but needs refinement. He should do fine in a year or two.

Remember, he was recruited and signed by Nebraska before being academically ineligible. He’s got big-program talent. Certainly he could bust, but I’ll give the Bears brass the benefit of the doubt based on their past history with this one.

Dusty Dvoracek

I looked at this guy briefly because the Pack may need another guy in the middle, and he didn’t really impress me. He’s a beast to be sure, but he’s slow, and unless you run at him, he won’t make a play. He’s also has character issues and had to go to anger management classes. Although I like his competitiveness, and he has the ability to be a force within 7 yards of where he starts, I don’t think he’ll be more than a rotational player, especially with Tommy Harris, Tank Johnson, and Ian Scott sitting in Chicago too.

I’m expecting him to be in rotation just as you presume. If he manages that I’ll be thrilled, especially since he’s said to have a crazy motor. Getting spelled in a 4-5 man rotation might raise him to a new level.

JD Runnels

If you’re happy with a fullback who is one inch taller and only 15 pounds bigger than your starting runningbacks, more power to you. I doubt he’ll ever be more than a backup at a forgotten position.

Think you’re drunk here. He’s got prototype size for a lead blocking FB. The difference between the Bears RBs and him is more an indicator of the Bears having big tailbacks than anything. He’s very similar in build to Mack Strong, Lorenzo Neal and Tony Richardson all of whom I’m guessing entered the league a dozen pounds lighter than what they play at now.

[Omniscient]

@Ellis Dee

I don’t understand why nobody has any love for Moose. The last time he had an actual quarterback he got the most fantasy points of all receivers in the league. That means he had monster stats. Don’t cite drops unless you also think Terrell Owens – famous for his alligator arms – also sucks.

As for age, he was from the same draft class as Joe Horn, Keyshawn Johnson, Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, and Amani Toomer, right? There’s still some game left in those guys, don’t you think? At least enough for this year, surely.

I watched every one of his snaps last season and the guy really mailed it in. His big year appeared to be a contract year only event. It wasn’t that he had alligator arms, he dropped easy short catches repeatedly. He’d yell at the QB immediately after dropping the ball that hit him right in the hip. Comparing him to TO is insane.

He’s 32 years old and has a history of injury concerns. He’s never been a speedy guy and he’s basically glacial these days, especially in cold weather. I’m not saying he can’t be productive and that he needs to be put out to pasture right now, but it’s clearly time to start looking for an eventual replacement (and injury fill-in) before he’s a cap casualty and you have no margin for error.

Right now he’s nothing more than a possession receiver (with the dropsies!) who doesn’t work the middle of the field. He can be effective in the Bears system when we’re moving the ball on the ground, he needs to be put on an island to have a chance at a big play. If he holds on to the ball he’s still a big target who can move the chains on 3rd and 6. Nonetheless, if WRs take 2 years to get NFL ready now’s the time to find one.

[Hamlet]

Some quick responses to Omni

@Omniscient

AJ Hawk is a quality addition, no doubt. Personally I’d have wanted Vernon Davis in this slot and I’ve made no secret of how good I think he’s going to be.

What’s not to like about a big TE who has elite WR speed, and led his conference in receiving, as a TE. He needs a bit of polish, but I expect him to be very almost as talented, and plays an important position, and will be an immediate starter. The Packers “wasted” prior first round pick on a TE who is still there, so I really didn’t think it made that much sense to grab another.

[qutoe=Omni]What happened next was staggering in its stupidity. Here the Pack sits with the 36th and 37th picks.
[/quote]
To a point I agree. It all comes down to their feelings on Chad Jackson, who, apparently, did not impress them. I can’t say I’m sold on him either. Sure he has the potential to be a stud, but I’m not sure he’ll ever reach it, which is why I’m not calling for Thompson’s head. They’ll get the benefit of the doubt for a couple years.

@Omni

They took a OT in Colledge who’ll probably play OG and they took a OC here who’ll probably play OG….do they have an aversion to drafting players at the position they played in college? Bad pick considering this is what they got in return for passing on Jackson.

The Packers went with getting more picks (without giving up too much position) to fill the holes they had. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is dependant on the guys they get and the guys they passed on. Losing Lutui, Jackson, and Justice hurt, but they all had their question marks. In return, the Pack ended up getting 3 interior offensive linemen, which was a big position of need.

@Omni

Corey Rodgers and Will Blackmon look like desperate choices. Good athletes at a need position, but there’s some great players coming off the board here at other non-skill positions they need. My guess….the Packers looked at their press and their lineup after the first day and realized they pissed away chances to help themselves on offense.

Hell, I was a lot harder on the Packers draft than most everyone else after the first day. A majority of “experts” said the Packers had an excellent first day; they had nothing to be ashamed of.

@Omni

These picks feel like the price they paid for passing on Chad Jackson. They’d have been better off with fewer picks and a couple standouts.

The way I see the draft, you have 5 types of players 1) potentially dominant players; 2) Solid starters; 3) Backups; 4) Projects with upside; 5) No chance. The problem is, of course, there are very few of the first type, and nothing is a sure thing. I agree with the Packers that Chad Jackson isn’t one of them, and he’s not even a sure solid starter. Now, the Packers seemed to alternate between getting 3’s with 2 potential and 4’s, which, I think, is the way to go. Cory Rodgers is a starter at kick returner, with very little potential as a WR. He’ll help immediately, but only on special teams. Blackmon has great upside, but will be a project. There was nothing “desperate” about the picks, there’s certainly a risk that Blackmon won’t emerge, but I think he’s worth it.

Ingle Martin and Tony Moll. As for Moll….who? I won’t pretend to have anything constructive to offer about this cat, though as noted before they passed on McNeil who’s a much safer choice than this one.
[/quote]
Of course the 50th player overall is a much safer choice than te 165th. I wasn’t as sold on McNeill as much as you, apparently, because he’s lazy and because we’re pretty OK at OT.

@Omni

Martin is a pretty nice pick though. He’s got a cannon for an arm which always makes me warm in the pants. He won’t be viewed as an immediate competitor for Rodgers job as heir-apparent but don’t be surprised if he doesn’t become the most popular man in GB when Aaron struggles in 2007. I don’t worry about the transfer from Florida, he’ll be a much more mature guy now and he was very productive at Furman. Any time you get a QB with an elite arm and a 61% completion rate you should be optimistic.

There is a little part of me that is jumping up and down about him, but I won’t let that part out for another 4 years.

@Omni

I see no realistic reason to consider this draft to be any better than the Bears except for the fact they were drafting at the top of it instead of the bottom of it.

Ahh, but we got MORE picks than you so we win!!! Mmwha ha ha aha!!!

Seriously, the Pack have a nice mixture of immediate impact guys and guys with huge upside, while fitting a few potential starters in the mix, and filling almost all of their needs. If you seriously think that’s equal to what the Bears accomplished, you really are better off being a Bear fan. I am upset that the only WR we got has 3 straight 1,000 yard season, but I’ll somehow go on.

[Hamlet]

@Omniscient

I agree and I don’t agree. Yes, the Bears needed to address some spots on Offense in the draft as you no doubt noticed from my ranting and raving. Had Chad Jackson and Leonard Pope not slid right into our laps at great value spots I wouldn’t have necessarily been clamoring to get offensive guys. I’m mostly a best-player-available kind of guy.

As am I, generally, but you cannot ignore need. If you have two guys who you equally like, one who you will only use in rotation at a position you drafted 2 guys in the first round two years ago, and don’t get a Dereck Hagan or even a Maurice Stovall when you have one of the worst WR crew in the league, it’s a mistake.

@Omniscient

We have one of the best OLs in the league and I’m comfortable with the Grossman-Greise tandem at QB based on what I’ve seen of Grossman.

I am glad that you’re still sold on Grossman. Let’s hope the coaching staff listens to you.

@Omni

Don’t forget, the Bears used 4 of out first 6 picks on Offense last year and it didn’t exactly amount to much improvement. The reason the Bears have traditionally had a great defense is because we never stand pat and ignore it after a successful run.

Which has led to their current quandry where they have a stifling defense and the 29th ranked offense. In 2004, they took Berrian in the third and Krentzel in the 5th. In 2003, it was Grossman in the 1st, and then nothing until the 5th, when they got Wade and Gage, and then Forsey and a throwaway guard. 2002, it was Marc Columbo in the 1st, Terrence Metcalf in the 3rd, and 3 sixth rounders in Adrian Peterson, Bryan Fletcher, and Jamin Elliot.

The Bears have built a great defensive team, at the cost of a horrid offense. They have a well above average running game, and a stout defense, which, 30 years ago, would’ve gotten them to the Super Bowl. Now, they’ll do great until they need to score points, and then they’re done.

[Shodan]

I suppose this is the place to brag.

My nephew signed with the Bears as a free agent on Sunday. So they have to be considered the odds-on favorite for the Super Bowl.

And I have to root for them :eek: which is tough for a former cheese-head.

Only for a year, though. My other nephew’s knee rehab is going well, and he has gained another twenty pounds (up to 318). So he will finish his last year, get drafted (the Dolphins expressed interest in him before he decided to finish at UW-Madison, IIRC), and then lead them to victory for the next five years.

And then share his millions with his uncle, whose support made it all possible.

Regards,
Shodan

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

Congrats, **Shodan. ** Now just get the genetics engine fired back up and shoot out another linemanfor the Lions so we can all unite and cheer against the pesky Vikings.

I think a guy I went to high school with got drafted. He was a pretty highly regarded kicker and got advice to seek out an agent because he was very draftable. I forgot to look for his name unitl I saw your post.

Omni, you’re not alone. I dig Rex Grossman as well. I dug him ever since the Orange Bowl in Florida. If he avoids the freak injuries, a la Ricky Williams, he should be a productive quarterback. The difference between him and Kyle Orton is rather large, isn’t it? I mean, after three throws, the difference is almost palpable.

it tastes like…like…victory!

[Sal_Ammoniac]

Can somebody answer something for me? I see these references to “chalk” in the mock drafts. What’s that about?

[Sal_Ammoniac]

Oh, and let’s talk about the Patriots just so as to goose that discussion a little. Seems like a solid draft. Maroney, people feel he’s a good RB. Mike Shanahan went so far as to say he was the best RB in the draft. Then Chad Jackson, the object of Omni’s lust at number 2. Then you’ve got a couple of tight ends that people feel are all right, a couple of linemen ditto, and a kicker – one of only 2 taken in the draft. Why the lack of love for kickers, by the way? Sure, they’re not on the field much, but geez – when you need one, you need one. Punters, same deal – the difference between good and not-so-good can be huge.

Anyway, you can focus on the picks, or you can focus on the pickers. And I’ve got to say, over the last few years, the Pats pickers have been very successful. If you look at the last three years of picks (before this year), of those 25 guys, only four are no longer on an NFL roster. I’m too lazy to compare to another team, but that seems like a darn good track record to me.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@Sal Ammoniac

Can somebody answer something for me? I see these references to “chalk” in the mock drafts. What’s that about?

Gambling term. When something goes exactly as predicted, that term is used. Signifies the chalk that was used for picks on a blackboard way back in the day, I believe.

“Those picks went according to chalk.”

“All the chalks won today.”

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@Sal Ammoniac

Oh, and let’s talk about the Patriots just so as to goose that discussion a little. Seems like a solid draft. Maroney, people feel he’s a good RB. Mike Shanahan went so far as to say he was the best RB in the draft. Then Chad Jackson, the object of Omni’s lust at number 2. Then you’ve got a couple of tight ends that people feel are all right, a couple of linemen ditto, and a kicker – one of only 2 taken in the draft. Why the lack of love for kickers, by the way? Sure, they’re not on the field much, but geez – when you need one, you need one. Punters, same deal – the difference between good and not-so-good can be huge.

Anyway, you can focus on the picks, or you can focus on the pickers. And I’ve got to say, over the last few years, the Pats pickers have been very successful. If you look at the last three years of picks (before this year), of those 25 guys, only four are no longer on an NFL roster. I’m too lazy to compare to another team, but that seems like a darn good track record to me.

Maroney should fit in rather nicely and they got another reciever to replace the outgoing one. I think they had a good draft, overall, even if I am basing it on how beastly their past drafts have been.
Their drafting over the past few years, as you noted, have been incredible.

[Osip]

I have to say I like what Denny and the Cards did.
I smell playoffs!!!

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@Osip

I have to say I like what Denny and the Cards did.
I smell playoffs!!!

Fired up about Leinart?

[ShibbOleth]

@Omniscient

That is just utterly absurd. Has there ever been a draft which featured 8 of the top 10 picks being offensive players? When was the last time 3 RBs went in the top 10? That is blatantly lazy journalism. You can bet Mel Kiper’s board won’t look anything like that with the exception of Brady Quinn and Adrian Peterson being near the top.

Yup, you’d have to go way back to '05 to find 3 RBs taken in the top 10

2 - Ronnie Brown, Dolphins
4 - Cedric Benson, Bears
5 - Carnell Williams, Bucs (best of the 3?)

Unfortunately only 7 of the 10 first picks last year were offensive players and I’m not going any farther back than that.

[ShibbOleth]

In case you care, here are Dr Z’s early grades for the draft:

Broncos, Saints, Cardinals = A
Jets, 49ers = A-
Rams, Lions = B+
Packers, Ravens, Raiders, Patriots, Panthers, Steelers = B
Bucs, Bengals, Browns, Chiefs, Seahawks = B-
Titans = B-/C+
Eagles, Cowboys, Chargers, Vikings = C+
Colts, Jaguars, Dolphins, Bills = C
Falcons, Giants = C-
Bears, Redskins, Texans = D

Could be interesting to check those grades again in about five years.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

I thought the Eagles had one of the better drafts. I think too many people are roasting them because they passed on an elite reciever.

I wanna copy and print that out and compare it to Mel “Be Jealous of My Coiffed Head” Kiper in a few years, like the Shibb suggested.

[Osip]

@Least Original User Name Ever

Fired up about Leinart?

eh, he is better a backup than most.

We got a reasonable guard who may start, if not will rotate. Pope the nice TE from GA. Two wide bodies for the DT position (who I am sure DC Penny will keep motivated) A linebacker who will be nice on special teams and might in a few years rotate as well. I did not like the 7th round pick all in all.
Is a solid draft and I am happy about it.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@Osip

eh, he is better a backup than most.

We got a reasonable guard who may start, if not will rotate. Pope the nice TE from GA. Two wide bodies for the DT position (who I am sure DC Penny will keep motivated) A linebacker who will be nice on special teams and might in a few years rotate as well. I did not like the 7th round pick all in all.
Is a solid draft and I am happy about it.

The way I sees it, Leinart is going to be your starter this year at some time. Warner is going to get hurt or be ineffective at some point. That’s almost a certainty.

I think the Lions should have drafted him, still. Not even necessarily to keep.

[Omniscient]

@ShibbOleth

Yup, you’d have to go way back to '05 to find 3 RBs taken in the top 10

2 - Ronnie Brown, Dolphins
4 - Cedric Benson, Bears
5 - Carnell Williams, Bucs (best of the 3?)

Unfortunately only 7 of the 10 first picks last year were offensive players and I’m not going any farther back than that.

Rats. See, I blocked that from memory because it’s too painful for me to recall being that the Bears made another colossal fuck-up there. I may have made a little noise about it as you may remember.

Anyways, I was in Vegas all week and had a full weekend. I fully intend to not let this thread flounder just because the draft is over for gods sake.

First, about the Bears, they continued to vex me by not getting Weatherford as an undrafted FA. They did add a punter in Joel Stelly of UL-Monroe but I’m not high on him. Most all rankings had him behind Weatherford and he’s got a weaker leg. We’ve already got a weak legged guy who’s supposed to be good at placement. Of course if this guy is actually good at placement it could be an improvement, still Weatherford had better kick-off potential and experience in crappy weather kicking. They also added another kicker in Josh Huston from Ohio State. I like him and he has a huge leg in weather. He wasn’t that consistent, but the upgrade at kick-off might be worth the risk. If he wins the job (and doesn’t miss 1/3 of his FGs) taking a non-kickoff punter with good control might work out. Needless to say I hate our current crop of kickers, though I could handle Gould if he only could kick-off past the 20 yard line.

I’ll check back in later and try and cover those other teams I mentioned sometime this week.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

I’ve got a hard time getting excited about undrafted free agents…outside of Marcus Vick, of course. If he ever gets his head screwed on properly, I don’t see why he can’t get it done.