NFL post-draft thread

The Game Room
1

Just because the other thread is already really long, this is a new thread for grades, etc.
[ul]
[li]New England had another great draft, stockpiling picks for 2010 to continue the dynasty. A+[/li]
[li]Ditto Pittsburgh. Rich get richer.[/li]
[li]My Eagles did quite well: Maclin was not my first choice, but I like all the rest of the picks very much. A-[/li]
[li]Including Gonzalez, the Falcons did great, too. A sure thing for the Offense, and a whole slew of possibilities for the D.[/li][/ul]
For some specific predictions:

[ul]
[li]Louis Murphy will be a better player than Darrius Heyward-Bey.[/li]
[li]Percy Harvin will be wasted in Minnesota. He is a complementary player, not a #1 WR. And he has no QB. [/li]
[li]Unless they add some FAs, the Colts will regret not taking more/better WRs. [/li]
[li]If he stays healthy, Pat White will be one of the two best QBs in this draft. I am quite confident of this. I’d lay money.[/li][/ul]

Not “wildcat QB,” not overall player: Quarterback. He will be better than at least two of the first-round QBs, maybe better than all three.

Despite ESPN’s hyping of the Sanchez deal, I think he’s heading into a bad situation. First off, it’s a team with an iffy receiving corps, though obviously that could change. More fundamentally, it’s an old team, because they keep dealing away their draft picks. Finally, the GM is on thin ice. If fired, the head coach will be on thin ice, since the new GM would want to hire his own guy. I see a lot of instablity.

Stafford is overrated, heading to a wasteland, and Detroit didn’t improve their o-line; a young QB needs a line more than he needs receivers IMO. There were good OTs on the board in the 2nd round. And Josh Freeman has “Bust” written all over him.

White, in contrast, will get snaps this year as the wildcat QB, and in 2010 he will beat out Henne, taking over a young team that’s in year 3 of a Parcells rebuild (but will have low expectations after missing playoffs in 2009).

2

I like Pat White as well. I don’t know if he’ll end up being the best quarterback this year, but there’s an outside possibility that he could be. He won’t get a fair shake, though. Just ask Doug Flutie.
The Lions’ draft was okay. I would have liked to have seen more emphasis on the lines, but I’m coming to grips with it.

3

This Pat White love is utter nonsense. His ceiling is Seneca Wallace. He played in the same type of passing system that Graham Harrell, Timmy Chang and Chris Leak played in, except he had the crutch of a spread option at his disposal to help him avoid sacks, blitzes and 3rd and long situations. The only way White has any career is if an NFL team adopts a full spread offensive system, and that’s just not going to happen.

The same people killing Mark Sanchez for being a one-year wonder somehow think Pat White is a viable QB with what amounts to ZERO starts as a drop back QB. He’s complete hype. Get over it.

4

Wait, the local sports guy just said there are still two more rounds. What two more rounds? This is so confusing! Does his mean my Broncos may still draft some defensive linemen?

5

Find a new station.

6

I think the Eagles did really well. I thought their last two drafts were pretty good, and I think this one tops them both. Peters (acquired right before the draft and entirely with picks counts as a draft move in my eyes), Maclin, McCoy, and Ingram are all dynamite weapons. This offense could be retooled with explosive young talent in a hurry. From what I’m reading, Ingram was an amazing value in the fifth and should be a terrific pass catching TE.

Not a lot of defensive help, but the Eagles traded for Ellis Hobbs (between DeSean Jackson, Maclin, and Hobbs, I don’t remember an Eagles team having this much firepower on special teams) and picked up CB Victor Harris, who is an absolute ball hawk and should make for a really good safety. The Eagles also picked up some extra picks in 2010 to bolster that draft. I’m loving the movement with this team, they really seem to get the overall strategy of continuous retooling without rebuilding.

Overall I don’t think the picks after the 5th will end up doing much, none of them seem to be high upside players, which is fine. Perhaps Fokou turns into a good backup, but I don’t see anything anywhere else. There is a lot of youth on this team and a ton of potential, especially on offense. I think this was an A draft, for sure.

7

I am so utterly baffled by McDaniels and company. Without a doubt the biggest weakness our team has is the defensive line which, behind the qb (no comment necessary… :mad:), is the most important element to a team’s success. We had a shot at Orakpo who would make an immediate impact, or we could’ve traded up and gotten Raji who is going to be an absolute beast and instead we draft… a running back :smack:. Our 7th running back. On a team that has historically done very well with a committee of good middle round backs. Not a single DL in the bunch (unless you count Ayers, who IMO is more a LB). On top of that, we managed to squander away what is sure to be a top-10 pick in next year’s (much stronger) draft and any chance at landing a decent qb to get a 2nd rounder in which we picked… a corner. Because cornerback is definitely our most pressing need on D :rolleyes:. I honestly think McDaniels is predicting that his 6th round qb is going to be the next Brady under his tutelage and we’ll win all our games by NBA scores.

So. Pissed. Off.

8

I’ll quickly comment on a couple things, and then take a longer (probably tedious, boring, and completely wrong) look at the Packers and other teams.

First, I’m not feeling the Patriot draft love that was evident all fucking day on ESPN. They traded down, got a lot of players, and some second round picks for next year. Yippee!!! I think it is a very valid approach, especially if you have a solid team and a great talent evaluation process. But did it deserve the ESPN Hype it got. No. Teams have been doing it for years.

It also goes for the Jet’s trade up to get Sanchez. The reason these things get so much hype is because ESPN wants them to so they can sell advertising for the draft stuff. They need something to talk about, something exciting, to fill the time. So when a team trades up early in the first round, or are named the Patriots, they get their asses kissed. Give them something to talk about is the only thing that matters.

I’m probably too hard on the Patriots. I REALLY like the Myron Pryor pick and together with Brace, the Patriots have really solidified their D Line for a long time. But seeing as how they passed on getting Oher, a great number of WR, Sintim, and others, I don’t see why anyone would think this draft was great. Chung may be fine, but he’s a liability in coverage, Butler is good value, I suppose, but he had 0 ints this year, and that’s at a smaller school. He’s not an NFL starting cornerback. Vollmer (who I really loved getting in the 5th or later) was an incredible reach (had it been done by anyone but the Patriots, the talking heads would have been lambasting them ala Al Davis and Heyward Bey), Tate is a head case with an injury (don’t forget to look at the talent at WR they passed on to trade down), and the rest seem to be nothing more than a bunch of possible backups. I’m not sure where they think the pass rush is going to come from or how they’ll cover people, but, hey, they’re the Patriots.

All in all, for all the moving, shaking, and trading, I don’t see a single impact player in their entire draft. Not one. That’s not to say they didn’t do a good job of getting capable backups and maybe a starter down the road, for their O and D lines, or that they don’t have the luxury of not needing to have a great draft, but there is no way I think this draft was anything better than average, and more likely fits in the “not good” category.

I guess it’s too late for these to be “quick thoughts”

9

Going through the OP:

The Steelers draft didn’t really impress me either. I like Ziggy Hood, and I think learning from the guys who are there now, he’ll develop into a capable starter at DE for them. He may also be able to fill in at NT. I think they got good value trading out of the second and getting more third round picks, only because they got Hood. The players they passed on by trading down were no longer fits for their needs (Gilbert, McGee). But still, they may regret passing on Fletcher and Williams. I really like the Urbik pick, and, if they’re lucky, he may develop into a massive RT that they can run behind. But after that, they get a bunch of "Why?"s from me. Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis, Frank Summers, and the rest are really, to me, a bunch of nobodies. And while Joe Burnett may develop at CB, I see him as Allan Rossum, a guy who returns kicks but not much more. And picking those nobodies left the Steelers with their gaping holes on their O Line, which, to me, is simply astounding (yes, I know they got Shipley. I mean GOOD O Linemen). You’re a great team, that competes hard and has the best defense in the country, but your O Line sucks. So you draft two O Linemen, the same number of DT’s and CBs as you got.

But, they won the Super Bowl last year, so they don’t have any massive needs. But, just as with the Patriots, I still don’t see their draft as all that impressive.

Take it as a grain of salt, of course.

10

The Lions QB is Culpepper this year. He is 31 and showed up 30 lbs lighter. Perhaps he will show some gumption and fight for the position. I doubt Stafford is going to be tossed into any games.
Draft ratings are a sport of their own. A guy called in to a sports station and said in the last 20 years ,the lowest the Lion draft had been rated ,(by Sports Illustrated), was C+. Yet we know how well they panned out.

11

Exactly why I’m so hesitant to give horrible grades to teams that have done very well in the draft and why I’m disinclined to give the Lions anything more than a C. With that being said, I guess quarterback is a position of need, so they filled that. The tight end almost seems more like a blocking tight end than a tight end that can hit the zone seams and make defenses pay. I like the Louis Delmas pick, though.

We’ll see how it goes. Maybe the Lions and Patriots will buck their respective trends and have had an unusual draft this year.

12

The Eagles.

You remember Groundhog Day with Bill Murray? Where the same thing happens over and over and over? That’s Andy Reid’s draft. He picked DeSean Jackson, I mean Jeremy Maclin. Then Brian Westbrook, I mean LeSean McCoy.

My evaluation of the Eagles draft highlights a very interesting point (interesting likely only to me, but hey!) about drafting. I really liked HOW the Eagles drafted, but I didn’t always like WHO they drafted (if that makes any sense). The Eagles did a very good job of getting the best players available and for good value. Moving up for Maclin was, to me, a great choice, if you like Maclin. Unfortunately, I don’t. But the STRATEGERY of moving up two spots to grab a highly rated guy with great value, is wonderful. It’s just that you have to do it for the right guy. (This is the exact same position I’m in with the Packers trading up to get Matthews. A great strategic decision with great value, but is the guy worth it will be the big question). But I’ll assume the Eagles know better about Maclin than I do. I also don’t like McCoy, I think guys like him very rarely ever develop as Westbrook has. Unless you think lightning can strike twice and turn a scat back into a successful between the tackles runner, it’s a questionable call.

The same happens in picking Ingram. I think Celek is a fine pass catching TE and that you don’t need another, but Ingram is great value in the 5th. Victor Harris is a fantastic zone DB and, again, incredible value in the 5th. Tupou is a great project OT who could really develop well, and Fokou has a great name. The player I really liked though is Brandon Gibson. He had a great junior year and projected very well in the NFL draft… and then the spread offense came and he lost it. His numbers, and his confidence, took a big hit, and he looked completely average his senior year and in the draft prep stuff. Still, I think he has the skill, ability, size, and mind to compete in the NFL. Though he may not be the best fit in the West Coast Offense, where YAC are huge, he’s a good compliment to Maclin and Jackson, and good value when drafted. Keep an eye on him. Maybe.

All in all, I really liked how the Eagles drafted, and some of the guys they did. But judging it depends a ton on what you think of Maclin and McCoy. I don’t like them as NFL players, but Reid apparently does. And, again, he knows more than I. If you like them too, I think the Eagles had an outstanding draft.

13

One last thought on the Eagles:

A lot of how this draft went also depends on whether you like Jason Peters and Ellis Hobbs. I don’t like Peters for what they gave up, but Hobbes for two 5th rounders was good. Peters, if he returns to 2007 form, will be a great trade.

14

The Browns had an interesting draft. I think if they had been able to get a trade for Braylon Edwards they would have stayed at 5 and taken Raji or Orakpo. Instead they traded down and addressed the biggest disappointments from last season, the O line and the receivers. I was a little irritated that Mangini would come in and scrap an offense that 2 seasons ago was exciting and successful just to bring in “his guys,” but now the offense could potentially be pretty good this season, assuming the QB situation gets worked out. I give the Browns a B.

I thought Seattle had a nice draft. They got Curry and Unger, they added another WR, and they snagged Denver’s 2010 first round pick.

15

One last thing, Pat White will not be a successful NFL quarterback. He may be more successful than Stafford or Sanchez, but he will not be a successful NFL quarterback. You offered to lay money, furt and I’ll take you up on that. It’ll be a good four years or so before we know, so name your stakes and timeline and I’m in.

16

My Steelers didn’t need a lot in the draft, and they picked up a few interesting prospects, but nothing much to write home about, so I won’t talk about them.

I’ll talk about our local Bills instead. Now after they sent Jonathan Peters out on a rail, they’re short a tackle. A good tackle. So did they draft any tackles? Nope, they drafted a couple of guards instead, start both of them, and hope they can make one of their current guards a tackle. We’ll see if that works. Two rookie guards joining a line that wasn’t too great before.

Everyone is so high on Aaron Maybin. I’m a Penn State fan and I watched all of their games last year, and I’m not feeling the love. I’ll admit he has the skills but it never seemed like he had the drive. There were too many games where he looked very ordinary, where if he wasn’t breaking through early he’d mail it in the rest of the game. I’d love to see him prove me wrong but when JoePa’s coaching there’s usually a reason why a guy as talented as he seems to be is only a one-year starter.

I like Shawn Nelson to start at tight end next year. A short-yardage passing game will help free up the deep threats the Bills have but can’t use as much as needed.

17

I think White has the arm and accuracy to be an NFL quarterback. He’s certainly no less accurate than Michael Vick. I don’t think he’ll beat out Henne, though. I see him more in the David Garrard mold- he’ll have to ride a lot of pine and probably switch teams at least once before he gets a starting nod.

But only the Patriots do it every year. Love them or hate them (and I hate them), their system is almost flawless.

You’re going to like Burnett a lot more as a cover corner than you will as a returner. He was a good (but not great) college returner, and he played in the MAC and C-USA, where everyone is a step slower. He’s just not fast enough to be a big-time NFL return man.

However, he has tremendous instincts and closing speed and he’s a sure tackler. He’s not going to be able to keep up with Randy Moss on a fly pattern, but he’ll be a tremendous zone corner at the NFL level. He would have been perfect for a Tampa 2 team, but I think he’ll fit just as well in the Steelers’ zone blitz deal. Think of him as your nickelback for the next 5 years, and maybe a legit #2 corner down the road.

I was thinking the same thing about the Raiders. They only had one productive wideout last year- Johnnie Lee Higgins, who’s an archetypal slot receiver. So they draft Heyward-Bey, who’s… an archetypal slot receiver.

Then I realized that the Iggles did the same thing. Now you’ve got two really good slot receivers, plus a running back who likes to split out in the slot… I mean, what the hell, Andy Reid? Are you going to run five-wide sets on every play?

I don’t know anything about McCoy, but I heard several people call him the second-best back in the draft- and at least you didn’t waste a first-round pick on a backup running back, which seems to be the Next Big Thing in the NFL (and is utterly, utterly stupid, IMHO).

Sure, you “need two backs nowadays”, as every pundit agrees, but if your first back is a Pro Bowler you can probably go ahead and use your first-round picks on something else. It’s not like you’re drafting “for the future”; you can pencil in a rookie as your starting running back on Day 1, unlike with other positions.

I distinctly remember the astonishing heaping of praise they got after the Roy Williams/Kevin Jones draft ('05?). I realized pretty quickly that they got a great draft grade because they had two first-round picks and didn’t do anything too stupid with them. By contrast, the Redskins got a bad grade that year because they didn’t have any first-round picks.

I’m not happy with the Bucs’ draft at all. Spending a first-round pick on a quarterback when you have four already on the roster is stupid. Spending a first round pick on a quarterback who wasn’t very good in college is really stupid.

We have far more pressing needs: Will linebacker, under tackle, corner, left tackle, wide receiver… hell, pretty much every position except safety and running back.

I do like the Roy Miller pick- we should have addressed run defense in the first round, but doing it with our second pick (a third-rounder) is the next best thing, I guess. He adds some bulk upfront.

18

Stafford went to the same high school as Bobby Lane did. What more do you need to know? It is fate. Success is assured.

19

The '05 draft was a good one for the Lions. Roy Williams and Kevin Jones were good players and were jetissoned for different reasons. I’m down with getting rid of Roy, for he was quickly becoming a malcontent, but not Kevin Jones.

20

We’ll have to see, but the Dolphins are saying he’s gonna get a shot.

Who does returns, too. Reno Mahe is just a distant memory…

Some teams, some times, but nobody as much or as often. More often, the emphasis is on trading up to get that one big-name top-10 pick.

I don’t think they needed any WRs this year. Moss, Galloway and Welker is a pretty good trio. Byrd is a project, but I’ll trust Belichick knows what he’s doing there.

I’m with RNATB: Burnett will be a quality nickel back and adequate return man.

On reflection, I think you’re right here.

But I see these two as pretty different. The Eagles traded a 5th rounder to move up 2 slots; this has been a pretty regular Reid tactic: stockpile mid-late round picks, and use them to deal up a few spots to snag your guy. If you’re wrong about the guy, all you’re out is a 5th round pick that might not have made your team anyway.

What the Packers did was very different: they dealt three 2nd and 3rd round picks to move up a whole round. That’s a hell of a lot. 2nd and 3rd rounders are guys you expect to make the team and possibly start. If Matthews is a star, it’ll be worth it, and he and Raji alone could make this a good draft for them. But if he’s not a star, I think it’s a bad move. If they’d just kept the 3 picks, they’d probably have gotten at least one OK starter out of it

5’11", 210 pounds is not a scatback. Looking over the rushing leaders from last year, I see DeAngelo Williams, Thomas Jones, Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson … Especially since the Eagles aren’t going to be running 15 dive plays a game,I’m not worried.

To a certain extent, I agree with RNATB about drafting RB early when you already have one, but:

  1. Westbrook is already 30, and has had a lot of injuries. He misses time almost every year.
  2. Reid’s offense is more complex than most and takes awhile to pick up. AFAICR DeSean Jackson is the only rookie skill player who’s ever been a major contributor.
  3. They have essentially no other RBs on the roster.

Oh, and Hamlet: you’re on with the bet. I’ll come back later with the specifics.