Much closer to the 2006 Bears team, complete with fluky wins.
…which is that Todd Haley is a doofus. The guy was an absolute stud in Kansas City despite having no offensive weapons, no offensive line, and having a defense that forced the team to go for big plays.
Thigpens been with Miami for 2 years now and couldn’t beat out a guy whose arm is attached to his shoulder by a piece of spaghetti, just to be a backup to a guy who was in danger of being benched. His “absolute studness” was, I assume you meant, 2008, when he had a “studly” passer rating of 76, while having a TD/INT ration of 18 to 12. He’s had a whopping 1 300 yard game, the same game he threw for 3 interceptions. And he was 1-10 as a starter. Sure it was on a bad team, but it’s not like he was tearing the NFL up with his game. He’s a nice, small school, had a few good games, story, but the reasons he’s a third stringer were well on display in that game last night.
an 18:12 TD:INT ratio is pretty fucking impressive for a guy in his second year who’d barely even taken a rep with the practice squad before becoming the starter. Anyway, he also ran for a hair under 400 yards and three touchdowns.
By way of comparison, Vince Young rushed for 535 yards as a rookie, almost 400 in his second year, and about 400 over the next three seasons combined.
ETA: Thigpen couldn’t beat Pennington because Pennington was a glorified quarterbacks coach. It had nothing to do with his play, and everything to do with Henne’s development.
The Chiefs changed to a spread offense after their top 2 QBs went down and Thigpen had to start. The spread certainly helped his stats, but the Chiefs went 1-10 with him as a starter. And Haley didn’t treat him much different than the other teams that had him. The Vikings waited to the 7th round to draft him, and then waived him. He was a third stringer in Miami also. It is possible all those teams didn’t see a starting caliber NFL quarterback, but I tend to defer to their judgments.
He’s young, athletic, talented, and, in the spread offense, a weapon. He may yet develop into a starting caliber NFL player. It’d be a great story. But it was pretty clear last night why he isn’t considered all that great yet, especially in an NFL system. Maybe he’ll get better and better as the year goes on. Good enough to keep Henne on the bench when he gets better. But I wouldn’t bet the farm on it. He’s got potential though.
The 2008 Chiefs defense was 2nd from last in the league in total defense and 4th from last in scoring defense. I’m surprised he was able to win any games, especially considering that his offensive cast was arguably even worse than the defense.
ETA: I’m not saying Thigpen is a top 10 quarterback in the league. I’m saying he earned a shot to start for a decent team. Certainly he had a better claim on the job than Cassell.
If I were desperate enough to run a spread offense like the Chiefs did, I’d give him a shot. But take him out of that system, and I wouldn’t want to be forced to start him. Maybe from here on out, we’ll see that he has developed, but he was not good last night. A good chunk of that was due to his poor O Line, but he did nothing to make me think he’s anything but a desperation starter.
shrug I’d be surprised if he got a single rep in practice prior to this week. It was a short week, against one of the best defensive lines in the league. Oh, and the best receiver on the field was gone by halftime.
In other news, John Fox has determined that his starting QB will be the studly Brian St. Pierre. Who has been with the team for all of one week.
I actually like the move (although I think Fox is all but done in Carolina). He has two options at QB, Tony Pike, a rookie, or St. Pierre (who has all of 5 passes attempted in the NFL). They are hopeless this season and going to host the Ravens and their very good defense. If I were a coach, who am I going to send out there as a sacrifical lamb, the draft pick rookie with potential future with the team, or a journeyman who I grabbed off the scrap heap a week ago? While I think Pike gives them a better chance of winning, St. Pierre gives them a better chance at having Pike survive to play well in the future. Maybe Fox isn’t just losing it, he’s actually trying to help the franchise.
He won’t be the franchise much longer, so clearly he is losing it.
How do you figure?
The Giants played a concussed Cutler behind a O Line riddled with injury. They played The Lions 2nd and 3rd string QBs, they got Dallas when Romo went down. The played Seattle against Charlie Whitehurst. The Giants have fattened up on teams in complete disarray.
The Giants were the ones who concussed Cutler in the first place, and they were also the ones who knocked Romo out. You have a funny definition of luck.
Let’s just see what happens this week, shall we?
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Let’s just say that your categorizing of the Giants as way luckier than the Bears is a crock of shit, shall we?
The irony of this comment coming from a Bears fan completely shattered my irony-o-meter. As I said upthread: “The six teams the Bears have beaten have had a combined record of 15-39.”
It may be a fine point, but there is a distinction between winning games against crappy teams and winning games against teams that just lost their starting QB. I won’t say that the Bears haven’t gotten breaks, but the Giants and probably some other teams if I look hard enough, have gotten more on the injury front. Strength of schedule tends to balance out, as the Bears will over the next 6 games, but catching teams at the right time doesn’t always.
Ellis, are you trying to imply that knocking those quarterbacks out was not at all a factor of luck or fortune, but instead a deliberate action? I’m not so sure your point is any better, I think I’d rather root for a lucky team than a dirty one. I don’t think your line of reasoning can go anywhere good… I might stick with the well-traveled “it’s better to be lucky than good.”
Some quick thoughts on the games this weekend. I’ll rank them and again they’ll go from least interesting to most interesting.
Baltimore (6-3, 2-3 away)** @ Carolina** (1-8, 1-4 home)
Why I might watch: Because like any red-blooded American, I enjoy a good bloodbath.
Why I’ll change the channel: Because seemingly unlike every other red-blooded American, I don’t like to watch people get embarrassed. I also hate the first weeks of American Idol and Ben Stiller for the same reason.
•The Panthers will be without their top two QBs, top two RBs, and their top WR. And they’ll be like lemmings up against the Baltimore D that, though older, is still respectable and has only given up 3 more points all season than the vaunted Pittsburgh D.
Arizona (3-6, 1-4 away) **@ Kansas City **(5-4, 4-0 home)
Why I might watch: Kansas City rocks at home, and if they want to contend in the AFC West, they need to pound Arizona and build some momentum heading into a critical stretch of the season.
Why I’ll change the channel: It’s going to get real frustrating watching the Chiefs force feed an old, ineffective Thomas Jones over the league’s current most explosive back, Jamaal Charles (leads the league in Yd/Att).
•I follow football reasonably closely and I don’t even know who the current AZ QB is. I don’t know who they plan to start at RB, either. Well, the flirtation with respectability was fun while it lasted.
Buffalo (1-8, 0-4 away) **@ Cincinnati **(2-7, 1-3 home)
Why I might watch: Bill Simmons’ “Law of Gus” says this game will be thrilling. He’s like 4 for 4 now.
Why I’ll change the channel: Because it’s the 1-8 Bills against the 2-7 Bengals. This game disgusts me. It’s only this high because of Gus.
Seattle (5-4, 2-3 away) @ New Orleans (6-3, 3-2 home)
Why I might watch: New Orleans is 6-3 while getting almost nothing from their top two backs all season… and now Reggie Bush is back.
Why I’ll change the channel: I don’t think Seattle has much shot in this game. That. and I’m not at all interested in watching New Orleans try to run the ball late in the game to secure the lead.
•The NFC South is shaping up for an extremely exciting finish this season.
Cleveland (3-6, 1-3 road) @ Jacksonville (5-4, 2-2 home)
Why I might watch: Cleveland’s run to the top of the AFC North starts this week!
Why I’ll change the channel: Aside from seeing if Peyton Hillis is really white… there just isn’t much here. Jacksonville has been extremely inconsistent. Garrard has been better than probably anyone outside of Jacksonville realizes, but he doesn’t excite. Well, other than in the last second.
•Mangini can clearly coach the Browns up… but can he elicit the same motivation against a comparatively inferior opponent? If he does it once, can he keep it up? The Browns will have to win out and luckily they’ll get the softest part of their schedule to taunt and tease their fans with. But they have to take care of business. The combined record of their next five opponents is 14-32 (Miami already played this week). If the best teams they face are Jacksonville (flawed) and Miami (Tyler Thigpen), they have a shot. Then home for Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Wouldn’t it be great if that week 17 game against Pittsburgh actually mattered?
(Chicago @ Miami)
Jay Cutler stinks.
Houston (4-5, 2-2 away) **@ New York Jets **(7-2, 2-2 home)
Why I might watch: All of a sudden you can pass on the Jets, and Houston still has the weapons to pass effectively. Right?
Why I’ll change the channel: Because Houston relies on the run now, and you can’t really run on the Jets.
•The Jets’ are 5-0 at home and 2-2 on the road. If that patterns holds true, the Jets got a break by getting all of their remaining creampuffs at home and their true tests on the road. Home against Houston (4-5), Cincy (2-7), Miami (5-5), and Buffalo (1-8)… and at New England (7-2), Pittsburgh (6-3), and Chicago (7-3). But… that can’t possibly hold, right?
**Detroit **(2-7, 0-5 away) @ Dallas (2-7, 0-4 home)
Why I might watch: Something has to give, and I think it might be Detroit’s record setting road losing streak. Also, there’s a chance that Wade Phillips was the only problem and this team is suddenly just as good as their talent is.
Why I’ll change the channel: Two and seven against two and seven. No Romo. No Stafford. This is only this high up because Dallas plays a huge role in the fate of the NFC and it’s critical that we (me) know just how good they might suddenly be.
Tampa Bay (6-3, 3-1 away) @ San Francisco (3-6, 3-2 home)
Why I might watch: Tampa has to win this week to keep pace in the competitive NFC South… and San Francisco is, alarmingly, still in the NFC West race. They’re much better at home and for them to gain ground, they have to take business in San Francisco. A win this week puts them just a game out of first in their division if Seattle and St. Louis lose as they’re both expected to.
Why I’ll change the channel: Because the under is pretty much assured. I don’t even know what the under is, but it’s a lock. 50? Book it. 40? Book it. 35? …Okay, fine, book it. I’m an addict.
Washington (4-5, 2-2 away) @ Tennessee (5-4, 2-2 home)
Why I might watch: Tennessee is third in the league in sacks (although tied with SD and Oak) and Washington might have the worst O-Line in the league.
Why I’ll change the channel: Washington looks much worse than 4-5. Say what you want, but this team might be 2-7 without McNabb… even considering how mediocre his play has been. And Tennessee has always struck me as better than 5-4. They’ll show it to Washington, I think. But mostly? Watching McNabb bounce another slant or sail another screen still gives me reflexive nausea.
•Washington: Opp. Rush yards per game: 25th. Tennessee’s starting RB: Chris Johnson. Washington: Opp. Pass yards per game: 31st. Tennessee’s starting WR: Randy Moss. It probably won’t happen… but there’s a decent chance Washington is about to give up over a hundred points in two games. How often has that happened?
Denver (3-6, 1-3 away) @ San Diego (4-5, 3-1 home)
Why I might watch: Divisional game!
Why I’ll change the channel: The wrong two from the division!
•Ever heard a boxing analyst (or any analyst) say someone has a “puncher’s chance?” That pretty much describes Denver. They’re probably going to get hussled, pushed around, and pounded… but they pass well enough that they could always wind up and drop you with a haymaker (see: Kansas City).
•You’ve probably heard it by now, but San Diego is the best passing team in the league (1st in yards per game with their top three WRs missing a total of 18 games) and arguably the best defensive team in the league… at least if you’re going by yards allowed. They’re 3rd against the pass and 4th against the run. Only the Giants are in the top 5 in both categories. But they’re 4-5. Either they’re about to set the entire world on fire (like usual for them) or Norv Turner needs to be executed. Firing him isn’t enough.
Atlanta (7-2, 2-2 away) @ St. Louis (4-5, 4-1 home)
Why I will watch: The Rams, better than most realize, are actually good at home. They’re bad enough on the road that they essentially have to win this game to keep things interesting in the NFC West. Well, as interesting as it gets for those chumps.
**Why I might change the channel: It would be interesting and exciting for the Rams to shake things up in the NFC by beating Atlanta here… but it doesn’t seem very plausible. They can handle the run really well (6th in the league against the run!), but Matt Ryan is taking the next step this season.He’s on pace to set career highs in yards, completion pct., touchdowns, and QB rating, while also on pace for his fewest interceptions in his short career. He’s on pace for 4000 yards, 63% completion, and 28 TDs to 9 INTs. And no one’s talking about it.
Green Bay (6-3, 2-2 road) @ Minnesota (3-6, 3-1 home)
Why I will watch: Divisional game! And Minnesota is so much better at home that they actually have a shot.
Why I might change the channel: I’m sick of Brett Favre, even if his complete collapse somewhat vindicates everything I said about his receiving corps. It would take a complete blowout to divert my attention though, there’s just too much good stuff here.
•The Giants and Eagles get all the pub, and the Falcons are gaining momentum… but the Packers are the sleeping giants in the NFC. To be 6-3, with their injuries, is remarkable. So while I applaud them for their record thus far, they really are about to walk into the lion’s den. As bad as Minnesota has been, they’re good at home and a divisional foe to boot. Then at Atlanta (where the Falcons are as good as anyone in the NFL), before a brief respite against SF and Detroit, then back into the den at NE, vs NYG, and vs. Chi. If Green Bay makes the playoffs, and that isn’t assured, they’d likely be considered the favorites in the NFC for having survived that gauntlet.
**
Oakland (5-4, 1-3 away) @ Pittsburgh (6-3, 2-2 home)
Why I will watch: This is an awesome, old school, punch-em-in-the-mouth matchup. It’ll just be fun to look at, even if the game isn’t competitive. And it might be competitive. It’s also got a lot of playoff implications, and Pittsburgh can’t afford to overlook this game
Why I might change the channel: This matchup is actually deceptively difficult for Pittsburgh, but even so, the talent differential is just too great. Oakland needs to run the ball to have any chance, but Pittsburgh is far and away the best in the league against the run. So Pittsburgh might have trouble scoring much, but they’ll keep Oakland down enough to win a sloppy game more easily than the score might suggest. But there’s a decent enough chance that Pittsburgh can get their running game going enough to absolutely bury Oakland. Take the under, I think.
**Indianapolis **(6-3, 2-3 away) @ New England (7-2, 4-0 home)
Why I will watch: A no-brainer most interesting game in any other week, but the luster on this rivalry has faded somewhat. Both teams are flawed. But that makes for a potentially more interesting game as both teams have larger flaws to exploit, and these two teams exploit flaws as well as any other.
Why I might change the channel: I won’t. Manning vs. Brady is too compelling. The flaws are too compelling (neither team is very good on defense, and the team who can find a running game probably wins) and watching New England find a way to slow down Manning will be a blast.
New York Giants (6-3, 3-1 away) @ Philadelphia (6-3, 2-2 home)
Why I will watch: I’m a Philly fan. But you’re a damned fool if you think any other game is more interesting, even if you don’t root for either team. This is one of the few tests the Giants have had this year. They’re 2-2 against teams with a winning record on the season, and that counts their win against Seattle, who will soon not meet that criteria. Those losses were for a combined 42 points, and they’re coming off an embarrassing loss at home against Dallas. Surprisingly, they’re probably better against Philly in Philadelphia. Since 2001 they’re 7-13 against the Eagles… but four of those wins came on the road.
And, uh, you might have heard that Michael Vick has been kinda good. Well, he’s the absolute MVP of the league so far, even with his missed games. He leads the entire NFL in QB rating and TD/INT ratio. And his typical flaws (low completion pct., relies on short passes too much) aren’t anywhere in sight. He’s completing 63% of his passes. He’s second in the league in Yds/Att. He hasn’t turned the ball over once this season!
This game is hugely important for both teams. And I have absolutely no idea where to go with it. Vick’s health has been a question mark his entire career, and the Giants have made mutilating quarterbacks a hobby this season. I’m worried. Then again, I’ve never seen my team play as well as they did in Washington. They’re hot. They’re on a roll, and they’ve actually beaten tough teams this season. They’ll have to defend Bradshaw and Nicks and keep Vick’s jersey as clean as possible. But no other team has the weapons Philly has on offense. They’ll need them against the Giants.
Why I might change the channel: Because there’s always the chance the villainous Giants jump out to an early lead, knock out Vick, and make the game an embarrassment. It would be too disappointing to watch. Well, sober, at least. I might not change the channel, but I’d be heavily into the bottle.
•The typically pass heavy Eagles are third in the league in rushing yards per game. Vick is a big part of course, but the threat of his legs and his arm has done wonders for LeSean McCoy, who is doing a terrific Brian Westbrook impression. They’re also 9th in passing yards per game. The only other team in the top ten in both rushing and passing yards per game is… the Giants.
Slight nitpick: Steve Smith is playing. You may have been thinking of the NY Giants’ Steve Smith, who is out I believe. Otherwise, spot on.
I’ll be in attendance at this game. Already have a pool going with friends on time of the first St. Pierre TAINT and how many series he lasts.
When we go 11-5 and win the north… just tell mr urlacher that his team is crap. LOL
Seriously… whats happened this year is that the free agent pickups have more than often worked pretty well. Jay Cutler has still driven us batshit but more often he and Martz are following what Lovie wants and we’ve been in every football game. The Offensive line is below average… Tice can coach em up a bit… but they are seriously in need of new blood. Basically if they team can stay healthy… and Cutler can stay sane and upright… we’ve got a shot against anyone in the NFC.
The issue is is that the National Media… (ie ESPN) predicted a disaster in the WIndy city… thats not happening… so every week… every week. this is the week… that they get “revealed” as posers… Get a grip… every week in the league is tough…