I wouldn’t give up one first round pick for Palmer. What the hell are they thinking?
Ok, I’ll interject a little bit of homerism to balance out all the knee jerk Raider hate.
1)Carson Palmer isn’t worth it, but the Raiders didn’t have a lot of options. Their other choices were Vince Young (would rather have Palmer) Kyle Orton (really doesn’t fit the system) or Kyle Boller (would rather have almost anyone.) Palmer isn’t going to be worse than Jason Campbell and might be an upgrade.
- The Raiders really don’t need the 2012 draft. The team is really really young, and really really talented. What the team needs is to stay together and start forming into a less green version of itself. They could use some line backers, true, but with Darrius Heyward Bay turning into a real player they have 4 or 5 solid WRs, 3 TEs that can all block and catch, 2 FBs that can block catch and run, the best RB tandem in Pro Football (arguable I know, but who else comes close, the Texans? Ben Tate isn’t half the back Michael Bush is) and an O-line that is already built for the future.
On defense, they have too much depth at DB, are in need of LB depth and have possibly the best D Line in the NFL (on the whole, other teams have better individual players). Then they also play the Vikings, the Bears and the Dolphins. None of those are good teams. Those should all be easy wins. That puts them at 9 wins for the season if they drop every other game, but they should take at least 1 game from San Diego too (the fan boy in me says 2, but I am realistic.) The Lions will be tough, Greenbay is probably a loss, but that puts them in position for a 10 win season and probably puts them into the playoffs.
They don’t need more rookies right now. The whole team is young.
They also feel that they are in a position to win big now. Looking at their schedule I can’t blame them. Their next two games are KC and Denver, games they should win easily. They have beaten the Texans and the Jets, both good teams. They feel they are ready to play with the big dogs, but they can’t do that with Kyle Boller. If Palmer puts them in a position to win now then they have to do it. The pieces are in place and the team is very young. The 1st rounder in 2013 hurts a lot, but it isn’t the end of the world and in 3 years when Palmer is totally out of gas Pryor should be ready to step up. Jackson has a long track record of being an excellent QB coach and I have faith that he is going to teach that kid how to be a proper QB in the NFL.
In the mean time, the Raiders have to start getting to the post season regularly again. This is a trade they had to do.
According to SI, it’s the Raiders firts round pick in 2012, and a conditional pick in 2013 that could be a first round pick, depending on performance. That makes it slightly less horrible, but I still think they overpaid for Palmer. They could have had Favre for less than that, and even his ancient ass is probably not much worse than Palmer…
They have their first non-crappy team in a decade. They are thinking they can make the playoffs. And they are right.
Of course, they are NOT thinking about the fact that they will not advance far in said playoffs, and that having an aging QB and no picks in the first four rounds of the 2012 draft will greatly hinder them from getting back there anytime soon.
They probably will not advance far, but why wouldn’t they be able to get back there again? The team is really young, and likely not to go anywhere any time soon. Not many players hit free agency for a couple of years at the soonest. Wouldn’t consistency in coaching staff (for a change) and in the player pool make it more likely that they will be a better team in 2012 than they are now?
ETA: that’s a legit question. I am fully aware that I have a tendency toward homer-ism with the Raiders.
It’s a steep price, but yes, I can see the logic here for Oakland. They have a strong running game, their existing QB options are pretty terrible, and Palmer isn’t what he used to be, but they were 4-2 with Jason Campbell at QB. The team made a big step forward last year and they want to sustain that.
Sure they had options: Don’t panic, realize this team is not going to win it all this season anyway, and keep building a team that can contend.
No, they are not. Raiders fans want to believe this, but it simply is not true. They are young at a few visible positions (WR, LT), but elsewhere it’s a mixed bag. There are only 1-3 legitimately young (e.g. 25 and under) players playing major roles on the defense. They have young talent at WR and OL, but the DTs and CBs are all 30+, and the rest of defense is a bunch of 25-29 year olds. In the NFL, that’s your peak … players rarely get better after 27.
The Raiders roster has 11 guys over 30, and only 10 under 24. In contrast, Tampa has 4/20, Green Bay has 6/17 – those are young teams.
I get that it’s a “win now” trade. But we’re talking about a quarterback moving to an offense he’s never played in. Even assuming that Palmer will be better now than he was for the last 3 years (unlikely), it’s going to take him 6 weeks just to learn the offense.
The point, though, is not whether trading for Palmer is a good idea. It’s whether trading 2 first round picks for any non-elite player is a good idea.
Fair enough and a good point. I suppose I am trying to comfort myself about the loss of large sections of this next draft. The team is going to get some comp picks and a 5th round and a 6th round.
That said, I do think that the other options for playing out the season were limited once Campbell got hurt and Boller wasn’t going to get it done. But yeah, they over paid, no question.
I guess I wasn’t clear: I think it’s a terrible idea.
I doubt Boller would have been any worse than Campbell.
Having watched him for years in Baltimore, I’m confident that he would have been far, far worse than Campbell.
It’s only two first rounders if Palmer plays very well…the 2013 pick is conditional.
I don’t think it is terrible, although I don’t think it is great for the Raiders. The Raiders have no t been to the playoffs in somthing like 8 years and now they have a very good chance. That is being scuttled by their QB situation. Now anybody who thinks Palmer is over-the-hill or washed up is not paying attention. He threw for almost 4,000 yards and had 26 TDs (20 INTs) last year on a crappy ass team. Dude is only 32 years old, so he isn’t ancient by any measure.
Is he worth a #1, probably not, but keep in mind that the Raiders first rounder next year will probably be in the 20s. The other thing is this, Carson is a perfect transition guy to a new quarterback, if and when the Raiders draft someone. The Raiders have a solid running game, and I do think they could make some noise in the Playoffs. This league is all about the Quarterback and I thnk folks here are totally underselling Palmer.
I still am not certain if Mike Brown really believed in that “Pandora’s box” theory he kept telling the media as his reasoning behind not trading Palmer (aside from his “he signed a contract, we expected him to honor that contract” hypocritical line of reasoning he was also parroting). Very few players make the kind of money Palmer was making, and even fewer save the kind of money Palmer was apparently saving (reported to have in excess of 30 million in the bank).
I don’t think he’s over the hill, its been reported he’s been working out every day, he’s a vet, and he’s not terrible. He’s better than their alternatives and only injury forced them into this mode anyway. Well, that and being 4-2 in a shitty division.
To Brown’s credit, it was made known that he wouldn’t trade Palmer unless the “right” deal came along. This was it for sure.
WHat are you going on about? Akili was soooo 1999. Have you paid attention to their first round picks in the last decade? 2001, Justin Smith, DE, solid player, 2002, Levi Jones, LT, Pro Bowler, 2003, Carson Palmer, Pro Bowler, 2004, Chris Perry, bust, 2005, David Pollack, becoming a stud, career-ending neck injury, 2006, Johnathan Joseph, CB, stud, 2007, Leon Hall, CB, stud, 2008, Keith Rivers, LB, serviceable starter, 2009, Andre Smith, good starting RT (took awhile), 2010, Jermaien Gresham, TE, stud, 2011, AJ Green, WR, incredible rookie player. So you see, they have drafted really, really well under Marvin Lewis, especially in the later rounds. I hope they draft a DB too! The last two we had are/were really damn good!
Desperation.
I have heard that the condition is if the Raiders win a playoff game this year. Otherwise, it’s a 2nd round pick in 2013, which is still pretty darn good for the Bengals.
What the fuckity fuck? Is Al Davis still running the team?
Who were they bidding against? No one else was probably even in the running. They were bidding against the possibility of the Bengals getting nothing. How high do you have to bid to outdo nothing? Certainly hit a first and first/second.
If they offered a second round or even third round pick, was Mike Brown gonna say nah I’d rather just let my football team suffer? Maybe, given what a fucking retard he is. I can’t believe being a retard actually worked out in his favor - the Raiders knew logically that any reasonable pick should get the job done because no one else was bidding and Cinci had no incentive to keep him, but they also knew Mike Brown was a dumb stubborn asshole and in desperation might have to overcome his desire to stick it to Carson Palmer.
How fucking stubborn and dumb he is actually worked out in his favors. Fuck that Raiders for making that happen.
I wonder if this means that Al Davis wasn’t really the one running the show making all the retarded draft mismanagements and stuff anyway. Someone has to still be there, in power, doing this stupid shit - maybe they were responsible for all the stupid shit with thought Al’s intervention was doing?
So, out of curiosity, what is the 2012 draft class projecting to look like? I don’t normally follow the draft this far out, but with Oakland taking Carson Palmer in the 1st, (I can’t remember who the 2nd round went to) Pryor in the 3rd, Campbell in the 4th, and Curry in the 7th, I am wondering what they are missing out on.
Edit: the second round went to pick up Taiwan Jones and Joseph Barksdale. Future RB and Future RG/RT respectively.
WWAD
What Would Al Do?
I’d like this trade if I were too a Raider fan. They’re going all in this year. They’re really good except at QB, and play in a weak division. Win now, not later. That’s a good attitude to have; you can see how quickly things can go off the rails (Indianapolis).