It makes more sense if you read it as “I completely sympathize with you for the ignorant, bigoted attitudes that have led you to conclude this.” I’m sure that’s what he meant.
I know you’re not encouraging me to do a witness in the Pit! 
What God intended to give to you, as a man made in His image, through His grace, and mediated through the life, work, teachings, death, and rising of Jesus Christ, is what He offers – not what any guy who is firmly convinced that you’re out to destroy America and lead our youth astray – after all, you are one of those gay Commies, right? :rolleyes: – thinks ought to be in the books. Homebrew and I have been spending an inordinate amount of time suggesting to the rest of the Pizza Parlor crew that, just as the idea of adultery and casual fornication being sins does not make sex within marriage evil, so the idea that men are commanded in the Bible to abstain from gratifying their lusts with other men does not mean that all gay sex is evil. (Like this: sexual desire is one of God’s gifts for man’s pleasure; lust is the perversion of that for selfish ends. Healthy loving sex in marriage is a part of His plan – and as Homebrew and I see it, that includes a gay marriage.)
Anyway, my $.10 on this is that just as you won’t allow some extremist with his head firmly planted in his colorectal sphincter to dissuade you from a patriotism that includes support of the rights of Americans to do things that may not please Joe Redneck, don’t let the absurdities that some people say in God’s name dissuade you from hearing what He has to say.
For the record, the link to my “Love The Christian, Hate Christianity” thread is thus:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49858
It’s bad enough I taxed the server once, don’t want anyone else to do it again…
Esprix
What follows is a completely and utterly irrelevant highjack with absolutely no bearing on the discusion at hand
I’ve been seeing this a lot lately. Recently, many people have taken to saying things such as “my eight pence” or “my 10 cents”, but I’ve always said “my two cents”. Since when does inflation affect cliches? It concerns me that I may be undervaluing my input. Do I get a tax break for that? Government subsidy?
Of course, it is also quite possible that a free market economy has set a five to one exchange rate between Beeblebrox thoughts and Polycarp thoughts (Lord knows this post would illustrate why)
Anyway, carry on.
I think the black-market rate on Poly’s thoughts are $.25.
Ah, now I understand why gobear gave me a “whazzat?” smiley. Thanks, racinchikki, for the clarification.
And beeb and Homebrew: 
Well, GOBEAR, one reason that I feel as strongly as I do is that the gay people I have met*, with very few exceptions, are unpleasant, prideful, bigoted people.
- I’m talking ONLY about the gay people I’ve met. The rest of you gay people, including GOBEAR, MATT, and ANDYGIRL and perfect vessels of gaydom, AFAIK.
How’d that sound to you?
Now, Children…
Hey, Poly, your link to the Parlor isn’t working for me - has the thread been pulled?
Sounds fine to me. If that’s what you experienced, then who am I to argue?
You really need to drop the gay/Christian comparison because it doesn’t work.
When gay people promote anti-Christian legislation…
When gay people can persecute Christian teachers…
When being openly Christian can cost you your family and your job…
When gay people pressure school boards and libraries to remove pro-Christian books…
When gay people teach that Christians are subhuman sinners and deserve eternal punishment…
When gay judges give interviews to local papers declaring Christian parents unfit and potential child molesters…
When Catholic cardinals equate heterosexuality with pedophilia…
THEN you can make all the comparisons you like.
Jodi, you seem completely unwilling to hear that many Christians (not all, but a lot) have made gay people’s lives very difficult in this country.
Thank you, Zev, for your thoughtful reply. Each time I interact with you, I am left more impressed than the last. Please accept this in the manner I intend it when I say that your humility and grace are not unlike my Lord’s.
Poly, don’t let the armchair logicians mislead you. There is no No True Scotsman fallacy involved here. That fallacy applies whenever an assertion is not a matter of definition. It is fair, for example, to say that no true Scotsman was ever born and raised in ancient Egypt. Claiming to know Jesus and knowing Jesus can be two very different things, as you point out.
No Jesus, No Peace is a simple truism. When the word “Jesus” comes out of the mouth of Fred Phelps, it is a vulgar curse word, and not His holy name.
I would also add that I am not mad at GOBEAR. Surprised, yes; a little disappointed, yes; but not mad. He has the right to his opinion about Christians just like others have their rights to opinions about gay people, misguided though I personally may consider those opinions to be.
And I do sort of wonder how long I’ll continue to be surprised to find this crap posted by people I greatly respect(ed). And when the day finally comes that I’m not surprised by it, I wonder if that will be a good thing or a bad thing. 
Now, I’m just trying to figure out the actual process that gobear is going through. I’ve never seen a paint can that a pushbroom could actually fit in. Maybe he uses one of those troughs that you soak wallpaper in to put his paint in, and just dips his hugely broad brush into that. One thing is for sure - the broader your paintbrush, the less accurate your painting.
gobear-so, if the only gays I’d ever met in my life were the ACT UP jackasses who knocked the Host out of my hand during Communion one year, I’m allowed to conclude that most gays are jackasses?
The thread Poly linked to is in the Beverage Bar portion of the site, which has restricted access. You have to be a member and request access and attest that you are at least 18-years-old. Homosexuality is one topic that usually gets kicked to the BB.
GOBEAR –
An interesting point of view. May I then assume you would not argue with people who said blacks are criminals, Jews are money-grubbers, women are stupid, and Hispanics are thieves, provided their own personal experience backs that up? Since when is “personal experience” alone a justification for prejudice? Since when does it automatically make a bigoted attitude worthy of respect?
Oh, sure it does. Your experience with Christians is that they are narrow-minded bigots. My experience with gays is that they are narrow-minded bigots. And we both must respect each others name-calling because it’s based on experience, no matter how indefensible in the cold light of day. Right?
I can make any comparison I damn well please right now. I am not saying that fundamentalist Christians do not do their best to make life difficult for gays. I’m not even saying that even moderate Christians have done all we might want in terms of promoting equality and tolerance of gays, not just within society but within the church(es) as well. What I’m saying is that there are enough good Christians to make your broad-brush insults of “most American Christians” absolutely indefensible. And I continue to have enough respect for you to believe that deep down you know they’re indefensible.
I have never said anything indicating an unwillingness to hear or acknowledge that. I know that fundamentalists in particular do a lot of damage to the ideals of tolerance and love, and I know that they do in the name of God. But that doesn’t make their actions Godly, or Christian. And it sure as hell doesn’t justifiy your saying that “the majority of Christians in the U.S. are blind, backwater, stupid, and sanctimonious idiots.” This is not an all or nothing proposition – we are not all morons, or all saints. You do not have to choose to consider us bigots, or consider us paragons of tolerance. Christianity covers both. And Lord knows Christians have no monopoly on narrow-minded bigotry, anyway; you yourself are unfortunately illustrating that.
Ah, but you have what I consider a more enlightened view of spirituality. If I understand your position from other threads, you believe that the sincere Buddhist in 200 B.C.E. who lived a life exhibiting Love, “knew Jesus” in the spiritual sense. To know Love is to Know God.
The problem is, though, that is not how the overwhelming majority, or at least the overwhelmingly vocal contingent, of Christians believe. Many of the most vocal do believe that unless you utter an actual phrase indicating that you accept Jesus as your divine Savior, then you are destined to hell.
For instance in the Luthern Church-Missouri Synod, charges have been brought against the pastor who spoke at the Prayer for America event following 9/11 because he prayed in the presence of heathen non-Christians.
Gays are frequently particularly singled out as sinful people worthy of scorn.
Check out all the homo-related stuff the Judicial Council of the United Methodist Church is dealing with this month. And the UM is one of the more liberal mainline demoninations.
Go back to what gobear last posted and witness all the discrimination done in the name of Jesus. I agree with you and Poly that not everyone who says “In Jesus’ name” actually speaks with authority. Again, I think that makes it exceedingly important for those who disagree to counter their work. I don’t see enough of that happening in real life, especially outside major metropolitan areas.
Furthermore, Jodi, jarbabyj and others, I don’t think the dog-pile on gobear is helpful at all. Instead of getting defensive and accusatory, might I suggest that you try to understand that he has been hurt by people speaking as Christians and is coming from a position of pain. Reread Polycarp’s measured responses and calm demeanor and try to recognize how that might work a little better. To usurp another banality, WWJD?
Homebrew, you are simply an inspiration. What an incredibly profound and mature comprehension you have. You are right about what I think of Buddha. You are right about what the problem is. You are right about the Lutherens, the gays, and everything else you wrote. God go with you always.
HOMEBREW –
I am not trying to “dogpile” on him. I am trying to point out why some of his comments have been massively inappropriate and indefensible – especially coming from him, a guy with good head on his shoulders and the ability to use it.
Might I suggest that you try to understand that I have been hurt by people speaking as homosexuals – in this very thread, as a matter of fact – and if I am defensive or accusatory (which I don’t believe I have been) – well, that comes from a position of pain. In case this is too subtle, allow me to clarify: I am not much for “coming from a position of pain” as an excuse for bigotry of any stripe. And while it may assist me in understanding why he would say such things, I doesn’t assist me in understanding why you would choose to defend them.
It might work a little better if you were a little less patronizing. I assume you did not intend to be, but I also assume that, rereading the quote above, you can see that you were.
I have great, great respect for POLYCARP, but his views are not entirely or always my own. I will continue to post my own views in the manner I consider best, and to combat bigotry wherever I see it. I’m sure you will respect my right to do so.
I’m done with this thread. I do not want GOBEAR to think that I am attacking him, much less think that I’m participating in a dogpile of him, dogpiles being Board behavior I particularly loathe.
I’m surprised he posted as he did. I’m surprised he apparently continues to apparently defend what he said. GOBEAR, you’ve struck a blow for ignorance today, but I don’t think it’s the one you meant to. Be that as it may, I wish you the best, as I always have.