I know we have a few men in blue on the beat here in GQ, so have a go at this one:
Part 1:
There are signs that say
No Stopping
No Stopping or Standing
No Stopping, Standing or Parking
I’m tired of asking local cops because they can’t even agree among themselves. The fact that there are three different versions of this sign implies that it is possible to be Standing but not stopped (sign #1 permits this).
Sign #2 permits you to park, as long as you aren’t standing or stopping at the same time.
Sign #3 is okay, especially for the congested rush hour down town steets. I still don’t know where signs 1 or 2 would be needed.
Part 2:
Do UPS delivery drivers have to pay the tickets they collect during the course of their rounds? I work downtown, and on my lunch hour I can walk around the block and see various sorts of delivery trucks with 2, 3 or more parking tickets stuck to their windshields. With companies becoming so niggardly and limiting the amount of paper clips that people can get from the supply room, I can’t believe they would tolerate a driver collecting $100 in parking tickets every day.
Oddly enough, I can’t recall seeing USPS vehicles ever getting a ticket. Are some agencies exempt? It’s well known that parking enforcement has quotas to meet:
-The Washington Post Magazine, Nov. 7, 1993
Do they seek out official vehicles knowing that the tickets will just be written off by, say, the USPS?
Anybody ever try contesting a parking ticket via mail adjudication? I have tried twice with rock solid evidence and eye witnesses, but was ruled guilty in both cases. :mad:
I don’t think I’ve ever seent he combinations of sign that you speak of, but what I do know is their definition up here in Canuckland.
No stopping is the most severe. It means you cannot even stop to, say, let someone out of your car. You can not receive a moving violation for this, but a parking fine is applicable.
No standing is the second degree. You can stop to, say, let someone into your car, but you may not stand there waiting for them. Same deal.
No parking simply means that you may not leave your car unattended in the denoted vicinity.
Perhpas you got the exact arrangement of the words on the signs… [ducking] wrong?[/ducking]
::looks around:: Who said that? wasn’t me…
“My drinking team has a Rugby problem.” This sig line has been brought to you by the creative mind of Wally
In New York, at least, the signs will say either “No Parking”, “No Standing”, or “No Stopping”, but under the law, “No Standing” includes a prohibition against parking, and “No Stopping” includes a prohibition against standing or parking.
I lived in NYC for two years and became quite adept at mail adjudication of parking tickets (received 8 of them in two years, never paid full fine).
In my experience, you’ve got almost no shot at a not-guilty verdict. The plain fact of the matter is that, most of the time, police give tickets to people that deservethem. Unless you’re the victim of a great big whammy, you’re probably at fault.
That is not to say that (at least in NYC) parking signs are not often missing, damaged or unclear. That’s where mail adjudication comes in. Just take a few snapshots of the paint-covered sign and send them along with a nice letter to the judge. You’ll usually receive a lesser fine.
My favorite story about NYC parking ticket adjudication comes from a law school professor of mine.
He got a ticket in a zone with one of those ridiculously complex signs that sometimes pop up here in the City. Well, he took a picture of the sign and went before the judge saying that he simply did not understand that parking was illegal at that time.
The judge asked him what he did. My professor said “Tax Lawyer.” Case dismissed.
You don’t have a thing to worry about. I’ll have the jury eating out of my hand. Meanwhile, try to escape.
Sig by Wally M7, master signature architect to the SDMB
Concerning the OP Part 2. There was a case a few years back in San Francisco where a UPS driver was being sanctioned - fired? - by the company for refusing to park illegally to speed up his rounds. UPS’ point was that they had told him they would pay for all tickets he got, so it was their perogative to tell him to break the law. The driver held that he could not legally be coerced into breaking the law. Double fault on UPS. As I recall, he won the first round, but as is so often the case with these stories, it disappeared from the news radar and the outcome remains obscure.
In one case, the signs had been bleached totally white by the sun. I took several pictures and sent them in with the request for dismissal- denied. The second instance I was in a bank seated in front of a bank official doing some account inquiry. Through the window we could both see the officer writing the ticket out and I still had about eight or ten minutes until the rush hour parking restriction went into effect. The fact that I had an eye witness who was also a notary public didn’t seem to impress the adjudication examiner.
In both cases I got back (about 8-10 months later) a form letter saying that I failed to provide compelling evidence to warrant dismissal of my citations. I wonder what would be considered compelling evidence? A video tape blessed by the virgin mary?
The letters said that I was now required to pay the fines, and if I enclosed an extra $20 (per citation), I could get my evidence reviewed by an appeals officer. Chuckle…
In Washington DC the signs are very confusing and often contradictory.
Some years ago in NYC, in traffic that was not moving an inch, I pulled over between cars that were double parked, to look at my map as I was lost. While I was absorbed with the map, a cop was writing me a ticket for “double parking” in spite that I was in the car, and the traffic was not moving.
I gave my address in Spain and some weeks later received a notification there. I was so incensed that I wrote back telling them exactly what I thought of them and try and get me if you can!
That was long before Giuliani. maybe today I would be shot on the spot
In Washington DC, also many moons ago, I got a ticket for making an illegal U turn when actually I had turned left onto a side street.
As the case was so clear, I appealed, showing maps and photos but, after waiting for hours, when I was heard, it immediately became clear that the officer had no interest in what I had to say. It was very perfunctory but what can you expect of the the people who work there while their boss is smoking crack? They just wanted the money. I was outraged and I learnt my lesson too: better pay and forget about it because it is not worth the aggravation.
All other tickets I have recived were fair and I just paid them. But I tell you one thing: if I ever get a chance to cheat DC out of a million dollars I will feel perfectly entitled to screw the SOBs.
Enforcing the law is one thing but trapping people I cannot condone. In Alexandria Virginia the Park police used to do that in a park. There is an obscure sign at the entrance that says no parking on the grass but nobody notices so, once in a long while they come by and ticket everybody but they do not try to make it clear to people not to park, just give tickets once in a while. I got one and had it dismissed without even having to be heard because there were so many people in front of me that day with the same story.
I came to realize this as well. The parking enforcement people go to great lengths to meet their quotas, and many of the regulations are left to the interpretation of the officer. You have to be parked at least five feet from an alley, but where do they start measuring- from the alley proper, or from where the curb starts to curve in towards the alley (a difference of two feet)? Every time I have received this ticket, I was well clear of the five foot zone, but somebody just needed to write one more ticket that day and my car was the next in line.
I think that at least one-third of the parking tickets I have received in the ten years I have been here have been flat-out lies. But what can we do? The issuing officer signs the citation, affirming that the infraction was legit and it boils down to my word against his.
The rest of that WP article I quoted from earlier said something about city revenue dropping off partly because of traffic enforcement not meeting their quota. In other words, the city’s buget banks of the commission of crimes by its residents.
Opus - all jurisdictions (city, county, state) estimate ALL income sources in their budgets (I work for a local government agency) - they have to account for their funding (auditors wouldn’t be happy if they didn’t) - makes sense, yes? That being said, if a source of income goes down, then they have to be prepared to make up the difference somehow and as we know, the D.C. government isn’t too innovative, although I think the mayor is trying. I don’t know if it would help or not, but the Post has a twice-weekly column answering readers’ complaints on transportation issues in the D.C. area - Dr. Gridlock - and this is one that comes up constantly. I THINK he has gotten the adjudication people to reconsider some of the tickets he’s gotten complaints about. He has an e-mail address – maybe write to him about your experiences. Wouldn’t hurt to write to the mayor’s office either.
I have actually been doing that for the past couple of years, but more to the Police Chief & City Council officials (this is really beginning to feel like a small town- the big guys are showing up at our ANC meetings on a regular basis. This is how I finally got an answer to my Left Turn On Redquestion- I got the Chief’s email address & he can’t get rid of me now). I guess I felt that discussing 5-year-old parking tickets might be considered nit picking and I’d lose what little bit of respect I have (if any) as a mover & shaker of my 'hood.
Dr. Gridlock sounds interesting, I guess I have never been drawn to it because I’ve never (well, rarely) experienced traffic problems in DC. Now that I know s/he discusses other issues besides traffic problems, I’ll have a look-see at it.
Does UPS pay the parking tickets? As far as I can tell, yes. They (and FedEx) are suing the Postal Service because they have to pay for parking tickets, and the Postal Service does not receive parking tickets (because they were/are part of a government agency)
Another item in the suit is that the USPS is using the first class mail to subsidize the costs of the overnight mail. This is why they can always beat out FedEx and UPS.
I didn’t know all your tickets were that old – yeah, probably too late to do anything about’em now. I think you’ll like Dr. Gridlock (it’s a he) - the column is almost entirely reader’s letters/e-mails about anything related to transportation. Sometimes he’ll devote the whole column to one topic – like SUV’s, or road rage. You find out you’re not the only one who goes beserk when people don’t use their turn signals (or whatever).
It’s not just the USPS that doesn’t get ticketed. At least, not in Savannah, GA. I was working down there last summer and stopped to talk to a meter maid one day. According to her, utility vehicles (construction, power, phone, etc…) were not allowed to recieve parking tickets either.
