“They” say that if a parking ticket is written after the restricted time posted on the sign, the ticket is invalid. Who is this They, and are they related to Dr. Google?
Does anyone have an actual legal cite for that in California? Is there anything in the CA Vehicle Code that governs the issuing and validity of parking tickets?
Background:
I got a parking ticket for allegedly parking during a restricted time (something like 6-10 AM) at a transit station. The transit agency farms out parking enforcement to someone called Citation Processing Center, and they issued a parking ticket at 10:05. I found their appeals process and said that I believed the ticket was invalid as it was written when parking was unrestricted. They upheld the ticket, claiming that I provided no evidence to support reasonable doubt, and that my car was observed in the lot at 9:48.
So… it took them seventeen minutes to write a ticket? And they provide no evidence to support their allegation my car was observed. Who has the burden of proof, and again, what is the legal basis for the concept that a ticket written outside of a time-based restriction is invalid? What’s to stop them from “observing” my car parked every day even if I’m not there at all?
I know someone who received a parking ticket for something like parking in a zone forbidden after 10 a.m., except it was still 9 o’clock. After photographing everything, running down to the police station, and making them look at the clock (there were still a few minutes to go…), the ticket was indeed invalidated. This supposedly took place in a California city, but I don’t recall which one (L.A.??)
The difference to your story is that in her case no amount of bullshit could excuse the spurious ticket (had she tarried half an hour, it may have gone differently), but it proves they aren’t always valid.
There could’ve been any number of reason it took 17 minutes before the ticket time was registered. Maybe there were other tickets also being written. Maybe the officer had to answer a radio call. Maybe the office first had to drive around the block to get back to the location, and got stuck at a light. Whatever. It doesn’t preclude the legitimacy of the ticket prima facie. I suppose you can take it to court and make the officer explain.
The entity issuing tickets is not a police agency and does not employ law enforcement officers. They are a commercial business in the business of writing parking tickets, so no radio calls, no circling the block.
I had been led to believe the the only time that counts is the time the ticket is issued as that’s (presumably) captured by an electronic device as opposed to old-style hand-writing tickets in a book. Otherwise, as I said above, what’s to prevent the parking company from claiming I was improperly parked every day of the week to generate income? It’s their word against mine. I never received a ticket in the first place - just a courtesy notice in the mail weeks after the alleged infraction - so I have no knowledge of the specifics other than what they claim.
Well, what is their proof you were there? The ticket. Now that ticket isnt evidence that you were there at a illegal time, so the ticket is not evidence at all.
You can appeal the appeal you know. That is quite likely the same company that issued the ticket in the first place, of course the ticket was upheld.
You probably have to pay the ticket.
Once before a 'real" judge, it very likely will be dismissed.
Parking ticket regulations will typically be municipal not at the state level, just in case that makes a difference.
Colibri’s questions are certainly pertinent. Are you angry because you were charged unfairly for something you didn’t do, or are you angry because you were caught, even if the process was questionable?
Where I live, Toronto, it is possible to appeal based on the circumstances given by the OP, however the process is designed to discourage most people from trying. The procedure is to file a notice to appeal either by mail, online (just recently added), or in person. Eventually you receive a notice of a time to appear either before a crown prosecutor or a judge where you can state your case and hope for the best. The problem is that these meetings/hearings are always during regular business hours which means getting time off work which is not an option for many people, although you can reschedule to another day. The city received revenues of about 100 million dollars from parking tickets in 2019 according to reports in local media.
I will point out, that it is perfectly legal- and many consider it ethical- to get out of a crime on a technicality. The Law has the responsibility to dot the Is and dot the Ts and fulfill all the steps.
This isnt a crime against Humanity- it’s usually not even a crime, per se.
If the OP can get out of it on a technicality, I salute him.
Somehow, if I were to dispute a parking ticket before someone called the “crown prosecutor” I would feel a little ashamed. Surely a “crown prosecutor” has more important things to do.
First, as far as I can tell, the Citation Processing Center simply handles payments and processing- they don’t issue or review tickets. You can indeed request a review through the Center but it’s the issuing agency that actually reviews the ticket. There are additional levels of review that can involve an in-person hearing.
Nothing wrong with getting out of a ticket on a technicality - but whether I was in fact guilty or not might affect how much time and energy I spend fighting it. And it’s not “getting off on a technicality” if you have to lie to get out of the ticket.
I can’t see the OP’s ticket- but I assume it’s a ticket issued by some sort of time-stamping device- if it was handwritten ticket , the ticket writer could have simply written 9:48 as the time of occurrence even if it took until 10:05 to write the ticket . And it’s not clear from the OP’s description of the ticket if it says that 10:05 was the time of the offense or if it says the ticket was issued at 10:05 and the offense occurred at 9:48. I am going to guess 1) that the ticket says the offense occurred at 9:48 and that 2) somewhere on the ticket is a sworn affidavit from the ticket writer stating that the above statement regarding the offense is true. That affidavit is evidence. I don’t know what the standard of proof is for California parking citation , but it’s not 'beyond a reasonable doubt". It’s probably “preponderance of the evidence”. And the uncontroverted affidavit saying that you were parked at 9:48 am is going to be enough to prove the offense by that standard.
Maybe if you go to the hearing and testify that you parked in that spot at 10:01 and got a ticket at 10:05 , you might get out of it if the hearing officer finds you more credible than the ticket writer. But if you were really parked at 9:48 ( and I suspect you were) you didn’t get off on a technicality - you got out f it because you committed perjury.
Oh and I forgot- it typically doesn’t matter when the ticket is written - it might take 10 or 15 minutes if the ticket writer needs to get new paper/toner and put into the device
I too fail the see the relevance. The question is if they have evidence or reasonable cause to believe that it was? And he is challenging the second one.
lol try getting a parking ticket in a car you dont own in a city youve never been to… thank god oakland takes pics of the plates when they give a ticket …it was up to 300 when we got a letter
the officer wrote the plate down wrong and pulled up our car which had been totalled 5 months earlier…
and even tho parking enforcement reversed it once they seen the pic it still took 3 calls tor it to get cleared up
It’s not as clear cut that I can say if the time written down is after 10 the ticket is invalid.
It all comes down to what the judge thinks once you appeal it to that level.
If it was a mistake on the ticket it doesn’t automatically make the ticket invalid. If the officer wrote the ticket in good faith and made a typographical error that does not invalidate the charge. Unless you get a judge who is intolerant of errors.
If the ticket automatically puts down the time of issue and the officer is swearing he observed the vehicle parked there during the prohibited time then it’s not an error. You can argue the point of fact as to if your car was there or not but the time of issue isn’t a legal argument. Most jurisdictions will have a time limit as to when motor vehicle summonses can be issued. It can be days or weeks later so the time of issue is not relevant.
If you truly weren’t there during the prohibited time I understand the desire to fight it. If you are guilty and hope to beat it on a so-called technicality it’s probably not going to be worth the time and effort.
I think it’s always worth the time and effort. But I guess it depends on what the appeals process is. Here, in Chicago, I fight pretty much every parking and red light ticket by mail, if there are any grounds. I win over 50% of my appeals (which is actually not unusual for parking tickets here in Chicago) and all I have to do is spend 30 minutes at most drafting a letter, making my case, and going off to the post office. And worse comes to worst, I lose … well, I’ve just bought another 30-60 days of time that I don’t have to pay my ticket. (And here there are no monetary penalties for losing. No court costs or interest you have to pay.)
For the OP, the process in my jurisdiction would be to contest on the grounds that the parking ticket doesn’t reflect the facts (I can’t remember the wording, but reasons to contest are on the ticket – follow them and don’t make up your own.) I would send a picture of the ticket, showing a time of 10:05, and send a picture of the sign, showing that parking restrictions ended at 10 a.m. And that would be that. And I would almost certainly win it. (I’ve gotten my wife out of a red light ticket because federal law says the light has to be yellow for 3 seconds, but an “amber time” of 2.9 was listed on the photograph and video of her car running the light. She would have blown the light anyway, but they dismissed the ticket. That one I was a little surprised about.)
It’s extremely relevant. Many people who represent themselves believe they have a gotcha moment where they can do their best Perry Mason impression. Not realizing their gotcha is something that can easily be answered.
“I observed the vehicle parked during the prohibited time. I wrote down the plate then moved to an area where I was not blocking traffic. When the ticket was issued it was 10:17.”
Ok the gotcha is gone. Now all that’s left is if the car was there during the time. And it’s a matter of is it worth the time and effort to fight something you are guilty of but with small consequences.
I once fought a ticket I’d received for parking between 6am and 8am. I knew the ticket was not correct (I was standing by my car watching until 8:01). The “time” spot on the ticket was blank.
I arrived at traffic court and it was insanely busy. The judge was preemptively offering deals; “plead guilty and I drop the fine from $100 to $10”, and everyone was happily taking the deal. Until my turn came. I explained why I was entering a not-guilty plea and had my ticket in hand.
The judge wasn’t pleased. He looked at my carbon copy of the ticket and accused me of erasing the time. I told him I did not do that, and was offended he’d think that. He became even more angry. He stopped everything and sent a clerk to retrieve the original ticket, which took about twenty minutes of the court’s time. He told me that if the original ticket had a time written in, he’d charge me with everything he could think of.
When the original copy was brought to him, the time box was empty. He apologized to me, asked me what time I left my car and I repeated 8:01, and he found me not guilty.