Ok, Lola. Calmly speaking:
So people don’t live very long in your area!!
Maybe there should have been more marriage, less heat, fewer battles.
Or maybe things just aren’t very healthy there. :eek:
Try the original cemetaries up north, going back to 1635. Husbands and wives buried side by side.
They lived to the ripe old age of 80s and 90s.
They weren’t having kids in their old age, but it’s sure better evidence of how healthy a real loving commitment is.
And it’s a lot better than belief in nothing.
By the way, for anyone who’s possibly interested in facts/statistics…In the 1990s, married men lived an average of 9 years longer and healthier than single men. (bureau of statistics, 1996).
Actually, folks may be surprised to hear I actually was married once (no kids). It lasted almost 7 years, didn’t end bitterly, and we are great friends (incl. his wife) to this day - reason for divorce? I married at age 18. :eek:
Once again, I think given the success rates of marriages these days, why not try the pragmatic approach, i.e. renewable contracts. Hell, it might even keep people on their toes; realizing there’s an opt-out, it may just make unions stronger than ever before!
I was engaged at 19, married at 21. For western Kentucky, that’s about right on schedule.
It’s been almost 4 years now and we’re still pretty happy (although there are days where both of us wonder what the hell we’ve done, hehe).
That said, if my marriage were to end, be it divorce or death, I would not even consider remarriage until my kid was out of the house. I’ve always been irritated when I see people leaping from spouse to spouse with no regard for their kids and bringing a stranger into the home and telling them “do what Joe/Harry/Bob” tells you.
So I probably would put the love life on complete hold till WV_Baby went to college. No point in dating if you’re not marriage minded, imho.
You’ve got character and heart, WV_Woman!!
If a child is involved, they have to be the first consideration.
As I said before there’s nothing wrong with not getting married but—
Ladies beware:
If I may sum up my opinion with a quote
“Old Grammy” used to use. It’s old but realistic–
“The farmer won’t buy the cow, if he can get the milk for free”.
That’s my last thougt on marriage vs. not
for those who choose the less conventional lifestyle, you’d better think twice. :eek:
Morality aside, can I make an anecdotal observation?
Every time I have seen a couple shack up, I have watched the woman get totally shafted – ESPECIALLY financially.
The way I see it, the guy is getting off easy. Sex whenever he wants, 2 paychecks instead of one, a live-in mommy/lover/housekeeper, and best of all he doesn’t have to commit. So when he leaves there she is stuck dealing with the bills he didn’t pay, plus nursing a broken heart as well.
I’m not saying women don’t pull that crap on men, either, and I’m not saying that it’s always like that. I’m just saying in that the shacking couples I have personally known, that’s how it was, always.
some interesting tid bits from where i live. our divorce rate sits around the 50% mark, also fewer and fewer couples are getting married. the government has firmly embraced the idea that lots of people arent getting married and legally a de facto relationship is as financially secure as marriage.
im included on my partners works health insurance scheme, they didnt even blink at including me as his ‘partner’ . almost all major utility companys like power and phone require all adult household occupants names on the bills.
as for a live in mommy/lover/housekeeper? that may be true, but that has more to do with the female lack of self esteem and letting herself be walked over than the state of marriage or not.
this no marriage / lack of commitment correlation is bizarre. stats have shown that marriage also has no firm correlation to commitment, how can it when 50% of the time it fails?
my partner and i are very committed. he travelled 30 thousand miles and moved countries to live with me. we are now just about in the position where we are starting to look at buying a house. thats a 20 years commitment right there.
both imply that men are in a relationship just for sex and, if given the opportunity, will use a woman physically without a qualm. Its very much a view perpetuated by the The Rules. IMHO, that’s a pretty negative view of both men and women and also of what marriage means. Its also amazing that the underlying statement is that the woman should be the one held responsible if she gets shafted. Not the guy for being a slimeball. Its a pretty mercenary view that women need to marry men so that they can ensure that if the guy leaves that he will pay financially for it.
The good ol’ marriage penalty for spouses who both work can show that getting married can also shaft you financially.
And back on topic, I think that if marriage works for you then great. If not, then its your business. Committment and maturity are what matter and a piece of paper neither conveys or prevents that.
People die in their 20s and 30s, and in many cases much younger, now. The cemetary near which you lived proves nothing. Do you really think, for example, that the Founding Fathers only lived into their 30s? Please.
Personally, I can’t see myself ever getting married. I’m still relatively young and that may change once I hit my thirties, but right now, my reasons are thus: the institution of marriage represents nothing to me. My parents were married for seventeen years and being married did not change the fact that my father was an abusive asshole who got his kicks knocking his family around while drinking heavily. When I think of marriage, I think of a power struggle, and I have no good feelings whatsoever about it. The thing is - I don’t think it really means anything. I don’t think marriage is necessary to have a happy, healthy, loving relationship that lasts a lifetime.
If I do ever find myself getting married, there would be absolutely none of that TLC Wedding Story bullshit. Just me, the groom, a witness or two, and the justice of the peace. And I sure as hell am not wearing white.
I would like to respond to a couple of comments from my point of view. For those of you who may have skimmed over my previous post on page one, I am a woman in a committed relationship who is not legally married.
I feel like these comments are wrong on so many levels, it’s difficult to even find a place to start.
First of all, there is the implication that my SO (Feynn, as he’s known at the SDMB) is merely in our relationship for the sex. That his responsibilities are done as soon as he zips up his pants.
Secondly, the sexist feeling that only men can engage in relationships merely for sex. I, myself, a woman, have been involved in previous relationships merely for the sex. Was it right to use people? No, and now that I’m older and wiser, I see that much more clearly now. I hurt some men that loved me dearly, and I did not return their deep affections.
And what is this “buying cow” business? Hmmm? Am I the cow? If so, I don’t want to be bought.
Fourthly, there is the implication that if there are no marriage papers signed, then there is no commitment at all. Feynn and I are very much committed to each other.
We have a great relationship. We enjoy each other’s company. He’s my best friend, and I’m his best friend. I don’t want to have a day where he is not in it. We almost never have a “night out away from the spouse”. And that’s not because either of us is jealous and won’t allow the other one out. It’s because a night out away from the spouse isn’t nearly as much fun unless he’s with me. We have fun together. We can sit up all night just talking. He phones me from work just to tell me that he loves me. He leaves little love notes in unexpected places around the house to tell me how he feels. He brings me home my favourite chocolate bar just because he wants to see me smile.
We share the household responsibilities. When I’m in the middle of finals or midterms, or another bloody essay due in the morning, he comes home from a ten hour shift and gets the kids ready for bed, does the dishes, picks up the house, and gets up with cranky children in the middle of the night. If he feels like my attentions are needed elsewhere, he gladly takes on more than his fair share, and does so without complaint or recrimination.
We respect each other as human beings. I respect his decisions and he respects mine. We decide things together, and listen carefully to the other’s view point.
And this is not in the first, idealistic days of care-free relationship. We have been together nearly seven years, and have four children together (two from my previous marriage). We share a lot of responsibility, and I feel blessed to have such a special person to share my life with.
And no, I don’t want to legally get married. I suspect that a lot of my reluctance comes from my first marriage. I feel like he changed a great deal as soon as we signed the papers. That’s when he turned from a handsome prince into a cold, demanding, restrictive, jealous person. Intellectually, I know that this relationship is different. However, if it isn’t broke, than why try to fix it? We’re both committed to each other and have a fantastic relationship. So the piece of paper conjures up memories of a hideous, restrictive relationship and makes me want to hyperventilate. Does that make me someone who is merely taking “milk for free”?
I’ve been married once, and I don’t plan on ever doing it again. Furthermore, I don’t plan on living with anyone again, whether romantically or platonically. I’m more comfortable with my ex then I’ve ever been with anyone else, so it’s difficult to imagine that my mind would change on this.
I need lots of time alone, and my ideal relationship would be with someone who was very independent and also chose to live alone.
Years ago, I worked out just this “future plan” with the love of my college life (who, sadly, died of cancer my senior year)! I love dogs, and he hated them. He wanted kids, I was not so sure about those. We both thrived on “self-time”. But we were crazy about each other, so we decided we could have a whole cul-de-sac: A house for me (and the dogs), a house for him, a house for the kids and the nanny, a house for my sister (about whom I have been crazy since birth), and a house for our mutual best friend, who introduced us.
I still really like that plan, only I have not since dated anyone who was even willing to let me have my own bedroom, even hypothetically. :rolleyes:
Something that bothers me about that whole “free milk” analogy is that the underlying assumption seems to be that sex is a bargaining tool, that only men want it and women gain power from withholding it.
I HAVE A LIBIDO TOO, YA KNOW!
Sex has many facets and it’s been my experience that those facets can only be truly enjoyed when sex is a sharing experience.
My boyfriend and I simply “fit”, in so many ways that I won’t bother to list them all here. There are compelling reasons for us not to get married (mostly financial, so you’ll all excuse me if I don’t feel like sharing them) and none at all for us to get married.
Wow… so few people chiming in to say that marriage does work for them.
I must be one of the lucky ones… Myron and I have been married twelve years now (we had a two-year engagement), and I think it’s a great marriage. (And if he doesn’t agree, he’s sure faking it well).
I’d tell you all about it, but you’d be bored. Our life is a total yawner to everyone except us.
Well, Mrs. Myron, I think for one thing, the OP asked specifically about those people who have chosen to avoid marriage. So a good number of happily married Dopers (and there are plenty) probably just avoided the thread.
In addition, I’d say that happy marriages among regular folks are like happy marriages among celebrities–honey, they don’t make the Enquirer!!!
Thirdly, I think a good number of people who (for whatever reason) are not married have been put on the defensive by the endless (and judgmental) comments made by friends and family about NOT being married. So for those of us who are unmarried by choice (or who have not ruled out marriage, but are certainly happy being single), this thread became a place to find some kindred spirits and commiserate a little.
